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Old 07-12-2018, 11:05 AM   #1
spewtardnewbie
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what does daniel cates mean with this statement about gto

I'm particularly interested about not putting money while you're ahead or until good cards come out.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbu4bCi9Dlo
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Old 07-12-2018, 11:33 AM   #2
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Re: what does daniel cates mean with this statement about gto

this is beginners questions
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:13 PM   #3
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Re: what does daniel cates mean with this statement about gto

You're talking about the bit at 3:00, right?
He's referring to the way that bad/beginner players tend to put a lot of money in on the early streets when their hand is weak, but GTO play is actually quite passive with mid-strength/weak hands. It kind of goes back to the old saying "big hand big pot, small hand small pot". Bad players often pile too much money in on the flop, and then end up playing big pots with small hands.

The recent thread about c-betting A5 on AK6 was a decent example. Bad players that always c-bet their weak aces on the flop will find that the pot is way too big for the strength of their hand if villain is still around on the river. By checking back the flop, the pot stays small, and then A5 is more likely to win at showdown. Newbies are often obsessed with "protecting" their hands, but top pair (especially top pair of aces) doesn't need much protecting, because villain usually only has a few outs. If you make a big bet on the flop, villain only continues with hands that have a strong chance of sucking out... or are already ahead.
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Old 07-13-2018, 03:07 AM   #4
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Re: what does daniel cates mean with this statement about gto

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtyMcFly View Post
You're talking about the bit at 3:00, right?
He's referring to the way that bad/beginner players tend to put a lot of money in on the early streets when their hand is weak, but GTO play is actually quite passive with mid-strength/weak hands. It kind of goes back to the old saying "big hand big pot, small hand small pot". Bad players often pile too much money in on the flop, and then end up playing big pots with small hands.

The recent thread about c-betting A5 on AK6 was a decent example. Bad players that always c-bet their weak aces on the flop will find that the pot is way too big for the strength of their hand if villain is still around on the river. By checking back the flop, the pot stays small, and then A5 is more likely to win at showdown. Newbies are often obsessed with "protecting" their hands, but top pair (especially top pair of aces) doesn't need much protecting, because villain usually only has a few outs. If you make a big bet on the flop, villain only continues with hands that have a strong chance of sucking out... or are already ahead.

It's more about having good ok hands on dynamic boards where even tho you have valuebet meaning having +50% eq vs calling range, it might not be the best option. Because you have too many runouts where your hand will turn into bluffcatcher by the river and thus not realizing the +50% eq.
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Old 07-13-2018, 09:21 AM   #5
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Re: what does daniel cates mean with this statement about gto

Cates was talking about more dynamic boards, but the principle is still the same.

Sixfour with the unhelpful ****post as usual. Why are you even still here, man?
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Old 07-13-2018, 12:22 PM   #6
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Re: what does daniel cates mean with this statement about gto

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It's more about having good ok hands on dynamic boards where even tho you have valuebet meaning having +50% eq vs calling range, it might not be the best option. Because you have too many runouts where your hand will turn into bluffcatcher by the river and thus not realizing the +50% eq.
2018 and people are still using the term value-bet. Lulz.

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Sixfour with the unhelpful ****post as usual. Why are you even still here, man?
I mean it's not really a beginners question and I can't see what he'll really get out of understanding what's being spoken about.
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Old 07-13-2018, 12:28 PM   #7
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Re: what does daniel cates mean with this statement about gto

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2018 and people are still using the term value-bet. Lulz.
??

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I mean it's not really a beginners question and I can't see what he'll really get out of understanding what's being spoken about.
Not overplaying midstrength but vulnerable hands is pretty decent advice for lower level players.
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Old 07-13-2018, 12:49 PM   #8
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Re: what does daniel cates mean with this statement about gto

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2018 and people are still using the term value-bet. Lulz.
I'm pretty sure doctor877 is aware that the terms "value bet" and "bluff" don't fully make sense until the river (in fact, that was kind of his point, I think), but they are useful enough terms for this sub-forum.

I know you've been away for a while MMSS (welcome back!), so you might not know that doctor877 actually plays in the same games as Jungleman and RedBaron and the other GTO bosses, so his input is always welcome here.
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Old 07-13-2018, 12:51 PM   #9
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Re: what does daniel cates mean with this statement about gto

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Originally Posted by ArtyMcFly View Post
I'm pretty sure doctor877 is aware that the terms "value bet" and "bluff" don't fully make sense until the river (in fact, that was kind of his point, I think), but they are useful enough terms for this sub-forum.

I know you've been away for a while MMSS (welcome back!), so you might not know that doctor877 actually plays in the same games as Jungleman and RedBaron and the other GTO bosses, so his input is always welcome here.
I was laughing at the term in general, not him. It was still wrong I agree.

That being said if I can't laugh at people who are better than me at poker I'm screwed.

edit - After searching through some of his old threads I now take full credit for his success as I posted in like 3 of his old threads talking about GTO. Feel free to ship me $100 on stars for the training.

Last edited by MMSS; 07-13-2018 at 12:58 PM.
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Old 07-14-2018, 06:48 AM   #10
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Re: what does daniel cates mean with this statement about gto

Paul phua has a poker site lol? Great way to launder some money that's for sure!
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Old 07-14-2018, 09:09 AM   #11
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Re: what does daniel cates mean with this statement about gto

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Originally Posted by Duncelanas View Post
Sixfour with the unhelpful ****post as usual. Why are you even still here, man?
If he's posting in beginners questions then one would think that the OP is not at a level where GTO related nonsense is applicable. You wouldn't go on a maths forum and ask how you solve partial differential equations in the kindergarten section, this is really no different. He either thinks this sort of thing is actually a beginners question, which it isn't and he doesn't realise it, so I'm telling him, or he knows it isn't and is just wasting people's time by posting off topic. It's a four word catch-all response and actually very useful.
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