Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
Trying to take the step beyond recreation Trying to take the step beyond recreation

12-31-2017 , 09:31 PM
Over the last 4-5 years I would definitely consider myself a losing or break even player at best. Since I started playing consistently over the last 6 months, my skills have absolutely improved. I started tracking EVERY session the first of October but I know that I was already up a decent bit before then. I know you guys would probably say my sample size is too small right now but I have averaged $27/hr over the last 124 hours which is what I have logged religiously. I know I was up before that but I don’t have any solid documentation so I’m not including it in my numbers right now.

My main questions are, what stats should I be focussing on and what numbers should I expect to see to say that I’m a profitable player and can take the next steps to get past a regular rec player? I know there is still a lot for me to learn and I’m not saying I have it figured out. Just asking you guys what my next step should be to further this goal. I don’t want to play as a career but would love to turn it into a decent side job.

My platform has been .5/1 and 1/2 nlhe home games and 1/3 nlhe casino. I plan to play my first big tournament next weekend.

Last edited by rangalay20; 12-31-2017 at 09:36 PM.
Trying to take the step beyond recreation Quote
01-01-2018 , 11:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kittrell87
Over the last 4-5 years I would definitely consider myself a losing or break even player at best. Since I started playing consistently over the last 6 months, my skills have absolutely improved. I started tracking EVERY session the first of October but I know that I was already up a decent bit before then. I know you guys would probably say my sample size is too small right now but I have averaged $27/hr over the last 124 hours which is what I have logged religiously. I know I was up before that but I don’t have any solid documentation so I’m not including it in my numbers right now.

My main questions are, what stats should I be focussing on and what numbers should I expect to see to say that I’m a profitable player and can take the next steps to get past a regular rec player? I know there is still a lot for me to learn and I’m not saying I have it figured out. Just asking you guys what my next step should be to further this goal. I don’t want to play as a career but would love to turn it into a decent side job.

My platform has been .5/1 and 1/2 nlhe home games and 1/3 nlhe casino. I plan to play my first big tournament next weekend.
You have asked a wide array of questions - I am going to focus on the bolded for now

124 hrs is in fact a tiny sample and is meaningless. That being said - congrats

Being a profitable player: When you are stomping a game and its not just positive variance you can literally taste your edge. Every hand that gets played you will see mistakes that your opponents make. Some will be so bad its laughable. You will have reads on just about everyone (in terms of types of hands they play from various positions). You will formulate gameplans to exploit each and every one o their massive leaks and blunders.

My point is stats in live poker are somewhat meaningless in the short term. I have had 400hr samples that vary MASSIVELY in terms of results. The main things are.

1 are you seeing massive mistakes from your opponents
2 are you exploiting those mistakes
3 are you doing your best to not make similar ones (playing too many hands due to entitlement tilt etc)

I believe this to be the starting point in terms of bettering your play and being more focused at the tables
Trying to take the step beyond recreation Quote
01-01-2018 , 01:49 PM
124 hours of live play is less than 4k hands in most games, most online players play more than that in a single session, and they still have swings lasting months. Just keep that in mind.
Trying to take the step beyond recreation Quote
01-01-2018 , 02:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kittrell87
Just asking you guys what my next step should be to further this goal.
There really is a simple answer to this, OP.

1. Play more hands and see if your "winrate" is still a win rate.

Additionally, you have not kept meticulous records so far. Start now. Make sure to detail out your expenses; don't just record your win/loss session column.

Also, reread squid's response....many times.
Trying to take the step beyond recreation Quote
01-01-2018 , 08:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kittrell87
... Since I started playing consistently over the last 6 months, my skills have absolutely improved. I started tracking EVERY session the first of October but I know that I was already up a decent bit before then. ...
This is what caught my eye. Most people start tracking when they are running well. You started playing consistently in ~July, but didn't start tracking until October, when you were already on a winning streak.

Streaks can last a long time, hundreds of hours as the senior members have pointed out.

If I were you, I would use this time to take copious notes while playing. Then analyze your play after the fact to determine if your play was correct. Study, study, study.

Good luck.
Trying to take the step beyond recreation Quote
01-02-2018 , 10:29 AM
For what it's worth, for MOST players (in fact I'd say almost all players), success is directly proportional to how hard they work. Blackrain79 once posted that he's met a lot of top pros and the one thing he saw that they ALL had in common was a relentless will to outwork everybody else.

To take other people's money in the long run, you have to be a better player than they are in the long run. Yes, there are factors like the ability to swallow pride, the ability to be impervious to tilt, the ability to focus, the availability of consistent soft games et al but 9 times out of 10 the better player is the player who works harder to improve their game.

tl;dr to take the next step from rec to beyond start studying and playing more

HTH
DTXCF
Trying to take the step beyond recreation Quote
01-02-2018 , 11:23 AM
Focusing on stats in live poker (especially in tournament play) can be misleading and difficult. It is just very difficult to accurately track stacks, and takes a long time to get a legit sample size. During the time it takes to get a sample size that is valid, your game is going to change and evolve anyways, rendering your analysis moot.

Consider, instead, the following

1. For difficult or interesting hands, do the equity calculations afterwards. How often are you making +EV calls? How often are you chasing hands with a bad price?
2. Try to range your opponents, especially while not in hands. How accurate are your predictions on their hands?
3. Try to anticipate opponents actions, especially when you aren't in hands. How often can you predict their line and their holdings?
4. Try to identify specific traits in opponents. After an hour or of play, can you identify a specific trait (calls too much, plays a very wide range, very nitty, folds to three bets very frequently, etc.) in every player at the table?
5. What do you consider when you make a decision? Is your decision making criteria consistent? How many times a session are you making a decision that you regret immediately, that you would have done differently if you had stopped and considered longer?
Trying to take the step beyond recreation Quote
01-02-2018 , 12:40 PM
Since I grinded up a roll (in spite of 3k of it being stolen by the sites) and got my confidence up, doing it like a pro, w/o being one (but never been a rec) I have found it better to become a gambler (rec), to gamble it up, as I have whatever skills I can have or need at this point, and the feel and what's left is gambling, meaning I myself.
Trying to take the step beyond recreation Quote

      
m