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Trouble with GTO, ranges, frequencies, stats Trouble with GTO, ranges, frequencies, stats

09-30-2018 , 06:09 PM
I have a pretty good understanding of the concept of poker(at least I think I do) but when it comes to GTO and the idea of being unexploitable I seem to be thrown off. Online theres so much information about constructing your ranges making sure its "balanced" the word "balanced" in poker is very vague.

Correct me if I'm wrong but when constructing a range first you need to decide if you're going to be betting 1/2, 1/3, 1/4, or Pot for said range. If you're going to be betting Pot on the flop you need to make sure you're range consist of 66% Value and 33% bluffs because your opponent will be getting 2:1 to call. Assuming you construct your range correctly every time you are dealt any of these cards in your properly constructed range you should you are going to play it? or do you calculate EV for most if not all of your decisions? If you're calculating EV for all your decisions how does Fold Equity and Position effect those decisions? Do high level players keep track of their value to bluff ratio or stats in general in live games? is there a goal for the important stats that I should be going for? When I mention stats I mean things like Vpip, PFR, 3 Bet, ST, FvST, Cbet, FvCbet



If I'm on another planet I would love to chat with someone. I'm really trying to take poker serious and I believe I have what it takes to be a world class poker player just need some help understanding these concepts.

Last edited by FGCFlash; 09-30-2018 at 06:19 PM.
Trouble with GTO, ranges, frequencies, stats Quote
09-30-2018 , 06:46 PM
No if you bet pot on the flop your range shouldn't be 2:1 value to bluffs. If you read a bit of poker advice like that, try and find the source of where it came from and look it up because it is a complete bastardisation of a very over simplified toy game which looks at one street, no action to be taken afterwards with perfectly polarised range.

The thing you can takeaway is that the bigger you bet the more you can bluff. The more equity you have the more you can bluff, the more you bet previous streets the more you can bluff. The more polarised you are the bigger you can bet.

The rest of your post is a bit too can you solve poker for me and summarise it in <200 words for me to help.
Trouble with GTO, ranges, frequencies, stats Quote
09-30-2018 , 07:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MMSS
No if you bet pot on the flop your range shouldn't be 2:1 value to bluffs. If you read a bit of poker advice like that, try and find the source of where it came from and look it up because it is a complete bastardisation of a very over simplified toy game which looks at one street, no action to be taken afterwards with perfectly polarised range.

The thing you can takeaway is that the bigger you bet the more you can bluff. The more equity you have the more you can bluff, the more you bet previous streets the more you can bluff. The more polarised you are the bigger you can bet.

The rest of your post is a bit too can you solve poker for me and summarise it in <200 words for me to help.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlN2I4wLQ-w

I got that concept from this video which I now realize it was talking about the river but does that actually change anything? you take every street as its own I thought
Trouble with GTO, ranges, frequencies, stats Quote
09-30-2018 , 07:41 PM
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...79&postcount=6

Keep in mind the assumptions that are being made. That is still a very over simplified toy game which isn't poker. It has implications on how you play poker, that's different.

Also Doug makes shedloads of money from poker related stuff and is infinitely better than me at poker and poker theory and posts on 2+2 so it's also worth ignoring me if he says something I disagree with.

Last edited by MMSS; 09-30-2018 at 07:49 PM.
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09-30-2018 , 10:20 PM
Lol I see definitely not the type to just agree with someone just because they are better. Just felt like the math made sense so I was leaning towards it but thank you!
Trouble with GTO, ranges, frequencies, stats Quote
10-01-2018 , 03:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FGCFlash
I have a pretty good understanding of the concept of poker(at least I think I do) but when it comes to GTO and the idea of being unexploitable I seem to be thrown off. Online theres so much information about constructing your ranges making sure its "balanced" the word "balanced" in poker is very vague.

Correct me if I'm wrong
You're posting in the wrong place
Trouble with GTO, ranges, frequencies, stats Quote
10-01-2018 , 06:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FGCFlash
I got that concept from this video which I now realize it was talking about the river but does that actually change anything?
It changes it a lot. On the earlier streets, most of your "bluffs" still have some equity, because they still have the chance to become strong hands. In addition, you might c-bet on the flop with an unmade hand and not expect villain to fold, but you think continued pressure on the turn will get the job done. On the river, with no more cards to come, your hand either beats the range villain calls with (so it's a value-bet) or it loses, but can make better hands fold (so it's a bluff).

There are no strict frequencies or ratios of value bets to aim for on the early streets, because it's not completely clear whether a hand is a value bet or a bluff. The terms aren't precise enough. What you should be doing on the flop and turn is constructing a betting range that has a nice mixture of hands that either:
a) want to play big pots because they are strong value hands that will often be able to go for three streets on most runouts.
b) have robust equity and can improve to a very strong hand (e.g. draws).
b) need protection because they are vulnerable made hands (e.g. bottom pair).

In some ways it's easier to build your betting ranges by considering hands that don't want to play a big pot. If you work out what comprises the middle of your range (e.g. weak top pairs, middle pair, so-so draws) and check those hands on the flop, you can polarize your betting range by betting the hands that are better or worse than those mid-range check back hands.
As you proceed thru the streets, you'll stop betting with some of the weaker "value hands" if they have a bad runout, and give up with some bluffs, but bet the draws that 'get there', such that you arrive on the river with a range that is nicely balanced between "nuts" and "air".

Instead of thinking about "value" or "bluff" on the flop, think more in terms of equity vs continuance ranges, and whether you want to bloat the pot, either because you want to get called, or you're planning to run a big (semi-)bluff.
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