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Is there an accurate definition of a "Big Pot"? Is there an accurate definition of a "Big Pot"?

03-18-2018 , 11:45 AM
I realize this might be a question that most people understand intuitively, but I'm autistic, I don't like fuzzy concepts. :-)

So, is there an accurate definition or general guideline for what is considered a big pot? I keep reading Big Hand, Big Pot, Small Hand, Small Pot and then I sit down to play and end up all-in with a 77 or something when I realize I've built another big pot in the wrong situation.

I realize the answer will probably be in bb or SPR, I think, but I'm not sure. I'm currently playing 6-max NL5 cash games as I just started studying poker about 3 weeks ago.

Thank you for any possible assistance, it is greatly appreciated.
Is there an accurate definition of a "Big Pot"? Quote
03-18-2018 , 12:07 PM
It's not related to SPR. At least not directly.

It's purely subjective and arbitrary, but most people would agree on it roughly speaking. Technically it means a bigger pot than average for the stakes of the game you're playing and the street you're on.

I really have no idea, but let's say the average pot on the flop in live $1/2 games in casinos over the last 20 years has been $25. Then $50 or more is a "big pot" and $15 is a "small pot". On the river maybe the average is $100, so $200 or more is a "big pot" and $25 is a "small pot".

Maybe for online NL5 games the average pot at the end is .50 (I don't know).

But really it just depends on the context and what people seem to think it means.
Is there an accurate definition of a "Big Pot"? Quote
03-18-2018 , 12:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeyRiver
I realize this might be a question that most people understand intuitively, but I'm autistic, I don't like fuzzy concepts. :-)

So, is there an accurate definition or general guideline for what is considered a big pot? I keep reading Big Hand, Big Pot, Small Hand, Small Pot and then I sit down to play and end up all-in with a 77 or something when I realize I've built another big pot in the wrong situation.

I realize the answer will probably be in bb or SPR, I think, but I'm not sure. I'm currently playing 6-max NL5 cash games as I just started studying poker about 3 weeks ago.

Thank you for any possible assistance, it is greatly appreciated.
One way to look at it would be, what would the pot size be if the pot was bet and called each street. Assuming an open of 3bb, if you had action every street (assume a bet of 2/3 PSB), The pot would be 6 bb preflop, 14 bb on the flop, 32 bb on the turn, and 70 bb on the river.

A lot of times this happens because a player opens a decent hand (like AJ, or 77) from position, and end up with one caller. The flop is uncoordinated, so the preflop aggressor c-bets, and gets called. The turn is not a scary card, now the preflop aggressor has to decide if 1) he is ahead with his marginal hand, 2) he can take the pot down with a bet here, even if he is behind, 3) he is being trapped, or 4) he is playing a calling station who could have any number of thin value hands, some ahead of the aggressors hand, some behind. In this situation, there is a strong urge to rep strength and bet the turn. At this point, you are 15 bb into a pot with very marginal holdings, and that often commits you to barrelling the river.

A safer line is to check the turn, and call for thin value most river bets (checking the turn will control the pot size, and also place more bluffs\missed draws in villains river open range).

Just remember that the average winning hand in holdem is 2 pair. Don't overvalue your one pair, even if it is tptk. Recognize when you have turned your hand into a bluff, and play accordingly.
Is there an accurate definition of a "Big Pot"? Quote
03-18-2018 , 01:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpewingIsMyMove
Just remember that the average winning hand in holdem is 2 pair.
That's of very questionable usefulness. It's not the most common winning hand. This is sort of like those statistics that say the average salary is $50,000, and that consists of 100 people making $1,000 and 1 guy making a billion. A pretty dubious stat.
Is there an accurate definition of a "Big Pot"? Quote
03-18-2018 , 04:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpewingIsMyMove
Just remember that the average winning hand in holdem is 2 pair.
Where did you get that information from? I am 99.9% sure it’s false.

The vast majority of NLHE hands end preflop or on the flop. It’s very hard to make 2 pair preflop in NLHE.
Is there an accurate definition of a "Big Pot"? Quote
03-18-2018 , 06:41 PM
In my opinion, its all situational but:

Big pot= a lot of players, a lot of money, someone is all in, or just a big pot compared to to average pot sizes since you sat down at the table.

Small pot= 2 or 3 players nothing special. A hand played to get a feel for the other player that usually ends when a person bets.

Big hand= That big pocket hand or it could be your personal biggest hand of the night. Could also be something that hit the flop really hard and is almost unbeatable.

Small hand= Something that youd throw away or couldve won with but didnt generate much excitement.

I should also add that Big hand/Big pot and Small hand/Small pot, are and can be used interchangeably. Depends on how you tell your story.
Is there an accurate definition of a "Big Pot"? Quote
03-18-2018 , 10:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_spike
That's of very questionable usefulness. It's not the most common winning hand. This is sort of like those statistics that say the average salary is $50,000, and that consists of 100 people making $1,000 and 1 guy making a billion. A pretty dubious stat.
Your math skills seem a bit off. That notwithstanding, the point is that there is a strong tendency to overvalue a single pair. A single pair is going to lose an awful lot of contested pots at showdown, it is usually best to play for pot control if all you have is one pair.

And given the fact that poker hands do not have a quantative value, I assume that the meaning of the stat is that a pluarlity of winning hands at showdown are two pair.
Is there an accurate definition of a "Big Pot"? Quote
03-18-2018 , 10:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by madlex
Where did you get that information from? I am 99.9% sure it’s false.

The vast majority of NLHE hands end preflop or on the flop. It’s very hard to make 2 pair preflop in NLHE.
It was from one of many poker books I read (probably ten years ago, maybe Phil Gordon's Little Green Book). It was referring to hands tabled at showdown. I can't really back up how they came to that conclusion, but the implied principle of 'don't play for stacks with a single pair' has served me moderately well in most tournaments (of course there are cases where players are playing a merged range, and top pair becomes a monster, but those are more the exception than the rule).
Is there an accurate definition of a "Big Pot"? Quote
03-18-2018 , 11:26 PM
Thank you all, this does help. I'll base it roughly on the average pot per the Holdem Manager HUD. You know, this would all be much easier to learn if everybody would just let me win every hand! ;-)
Is there an accurate definition of a "Big Pot"? Quote
03-19-2018 , 11:36 AM
Sorry, one more post, just in case anyone else is interested. I just found the answer, or an extended version of the answer some of you gave. The book Small Stakes Hold 'em by Miller, Sklansky and Malmuth has a whole chapter called Large Pots vs. Small Pots and there's a pretty good definition of a "large pot" there. I don't know if it's ethical to post here, but it's a good place to look if anybody else is looking for the same info. It's not based on the amount of money in the pot either, but more on number and type of players along with bet types, much like several of you suggested here. Thanks again.
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03-19-2018 , 12:17 PM
ethical...? That is a 2+2 book; this is a 2+2 website.

Limit and NL are two different games....and what is a Big Pot in limit doesn't translate into being a Big Pot in NL.
Is there an accurate definition of a "Big Pot"? Quote
03-20-2018 , 03:22 AM
A "big pot" is one where it clear its unlikely to be won by a single pair; excepting when a big chunk goes in pre-flop.
A "big pot" usually has the feature that one of the players now wishes he wasn't involved.
A "big pot" often means you are "pot committed".
A "big pot" is one that "feels" like a "big pot" to you, or to your opponent. That's actually important, since at low stakes almost nobody bluffs once the pot is big; mainly because few people lay down big hands in big pots.
Winning a "big pot" usually results in you leaving a winner; losing one usually means you leave a loser.
A "big pot" is one you want to remember and tell your friends about.

And now we come to Louie's Incite ..err.. Insight of the day: Strategically you are far better off if the opponent has to act in what he thinks is a "big pot" before you do, and you both still have "big stacks". If he is uncomfortable with the stakes and you are comfortable, he will be in a "big pot" before you are. That's good. It can also happen if you bet into a "medium pot" that will become a "big pot" if he calls; often this means he's pot-committed but you aren't. Also when you have position in a "big pot" when a new card comes. So how your and the opponent "feels" about a "big pot" really does matter. In real life anyway, not so much in the far-far away galaxy called "GTO".

-Louie
Is there an accurate definition of a "Big Pot"? Quote
03-23-2018 , 09:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louie Landale
A "big pot" is one that "feels" like a "big pot" to you, or to your opponent. That's actually important, since at low stakes almost nobody bluffs once the pot is big; mainly because few people lay down big hands in big pots.
I'm not sure that's true. There is a lot of bluff shoving with air on the river at the low stakes. I'm talking about online though, I can imagine it is not the case in live poker.
Is there an accurate definition of a "Big Pot"? Quote
03-23-2018 , 03:28 PM
No, there is no definition of what a "big pot means".
Is there an accurate definition of a "Big Pot"? Quote

      
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