Mildly interesting spot from a pub game last night which I think could cause some good discussion. Single table, started with 4 and got a fifth after a couple of levels, WTA so no ICM issues, currently 150/300 from an 8k starting stack.

BB - just got on the wrong end of a cooler/flip, I can't remember, but he has exactly 300 which he posts

UTG - must have a bit more than starting, generally on the tighter side of TAG and good enough to put a hand down. He knows I know he's tight but doesn't know that I'll be aware he may try to open up a bit to get heads up with the BB

Hero is the CO with 3.5k after wanking off a bunch in this level through raising pre and then missing flops and has a general loose image

Button is the CL, must have around double the starting stack, generally loose and stationy but will get out of the way if it's obvious he's beat

SB just doubled up to about starting stack last hand and I've never played with him, he's the guy that turned up late. Hasn't done anything out of line yet

Don't recall the exact stacks apart from mine. UTG opens to 700, what are you jamming with?

Something like 66+, A2s+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, ATo+, KQo (14%). It's probably optimal to jam a bunch more suited connectors and weaker Axo as well, but I'm pretty much guessing, as I don't know how WTA tourneys tend to play out.

It seems counterintuitive to me that UTG should be opening wider with the BB all-in. I think he should be opening narrower (and for 2x, but whatever). UTG is not raising to win the blinds. He is raising to have a chance to beat a random hand for the T450 pot. His weakest hands are risking getting 3-bet and having to fold, so he has to have significant equity even with the worse hands in his range. Stuff like 22/98s which would be opens at most stack sizes clearly don't qualify.

This is way too aggressive unless we're exploiting UTG for having too loose of an opening range. If other players at the table are using a similar range, UTG's going to get 3-bet about 35% of the time, which means he needs to win .35*-700/.65 = T377 the times his raise gets through. In order to win this much he needs 90% against a random hand, which is impossible.

We should also consider that we only win T400 uncontested when UTG folds.

What is the beer% on the players?

I'm not sure if I've done this all correctly, but when I put it into ICMizer (in ChipEV mode), I got this result:


If UTG opens wider than 10%, you can obviously shove more often.

I don’t understand why we except UTG to raise a wider range here than in a regular situation?

Part of the reason to raise is the chance to win the blinds without seeing a flop, that’s not possible here.

TBH, UTG could probably be anywhere between 5-25% here and I think Arty’s approach is a good one.

One thing about WTA kinda social games I’ve played: as long as people are having fun they don’t want to bust so they’re overly cautious but at some point the mood kinda changes and everyone just wants to get over with it. That obviously changes the dynamic significantly.

Because we know he's tight generally, he can likely open wider because the other opponents wouldn't expect him to get out of line given the all in, thus he can raise expecting not to get called with stuff he wouldn't normally do, but still be way ahead of bb's ATC range. But even if we ignore that and say his range is the same, how much of that we he fold to a jam and leave us heads up against the all in?

He made it 700, you shipped 3500, SB+BB are 450. So he’s calling 2800 for a total pot of 7450. That means he needs 38% equity but in your case he plays for a 1050 main pot and 6400 side pot and I am too lazy to do the math on that in my head or the iPad.

Range-wise, Arty gave us a pretty good impression how that might look like in a theoretical situation.

But again, I think in your setting it’s way more important to know if he’s still in having-fun-mode (aka overfolding) or already in I-need-to-get-home-mode (aka underfolding). And equally important in which mode you are.

If it makes any difference he had a full pint

Does this not give a range for the other villains because you choose not to display or am I missing something.

I find that spots like this need to be looked at in more detail rather than just finding nash because peoples ranges are nothing like what they should be and people calling weird hands and folding hands they should call with results in pretty big changes in what we can and can't play. Maybe this is less important in a WTA scenario but probably not.

It's also worth noting that if UTG folds we are printing money as we are making 400 definitely whilst only risking 300 to win 750.

I would shove 77+, AJs+, AQo+, KQs. (6.6%)
I prefer to play on the tighter side especially in loose games that involve drinking, and when there’s a dynamic where people think u are shoving light to isolate.
Should we have a calling range here? Or just a shove/fold?


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All the ranges were given, but I didn't get a screengrab of them and then when I clicked something they disappeared and that was the end of my daily allowed calculations, so I just typed the important ones from memory.
The other players have to be super-tight (like QQ+) if there's an MP open and an CO jam.

UTG doesn't have a folding range against hero here right?

He wouldn't because?

The problem is that we usually just don’t know that and therefore have to assume the ranges.

If UTG always folds AA against an all-in because ‘aces always loses’ but never folds T7s because that’s his lucky hand, things obviously look very differently.

FWIW, given the population read that players don’t want to leave if they just ordered a new drink in a place where they have to pay for that, I would assume villain overfolds at least a little bit and might shove a little bit lighter.

Because his range needs to be strong enough to run against a protected main pot but also risk additional chips to win a non existing sidepot while others can 3bet him. Tough to imagine hands that do this and then fold for less than 12bb.

What's your reasoning for jamming vs 3b? Are you trying to get HU with UTG? Im sure with 2 left to act a 3b would accomplish the same thing.
I know effective is 3500 which is 7x his RFI so i can see size wise why you jammed, but wouldn't a 2.5 or 3x 3b look stronger than jamming given that you'd only have 1/2 psb left? I Would think it gives the impression that ur itching to get it all in OTF allowing you to play a very wide range in this spot.
3 betting with that little behind would also take his 4b bluff ability away so he would only continue with his 4b value range.
What do you think?
Does my thought process make any sense at all ?

Correction ,
My math was horrible, sorry. 3500 is only 5x his open not 7x.