Quote:
Originally Posted by O6opoTeHb
Hi, All, thanks for the very informative replies. I'll try to buckle down and learn about equities and EV as suggested.
As it turns out, I did NOT tell them what my hand was. I try to never show unless I have to.
Fatboy, I don't know what an ICM calculator is. Can you direct me to a starting point? Also, if I understand him correctly, Harrington's "vigorish" means that players behind you are more likely to fold to your open-raise all-in. In my situation, my last 4000 in chips and any two cards would have some "vigorish" when I open-shove, although, as Harrington himself points out, only a minimal amount, since 4000 in chips would be only a little more than a min-raise.
I'm still in the dark as to how SpewingIsMyMove arrived at the 20 percent win probability in his reply. Can someone enlighten?
It seems to me now that, if SpewingIsMyMove's 20 percent figure is correct, this really becomes a debate between going with your read or going with the math. My read was that I was beaten and my tournament life would've ended had I called, while folding gave me a small but finite chance at resurrection.
Thanks again, guys. Learning a lot here.
I haven't read Harrington in awhile, I do not recall his concept of vigorish. It sounds like you are describing fold equity, which is the gain equity from an action due to the liklihood of opponents folding. In this situation, any players that would over shove your first raise would not have folded to a shove. When they shoved on you, they were certain that you would have to call, so they were happy to play you for stacks.
Regarding how I came up with 20%, I simply used an equity calculator (in this case Equilab) to calculate your hand versus likely ranges for each villain. There is some estimation in trying to determine their ranges, but we can make a fair approximation.
Again, I can't speak to Harrington, but I can tell you this. When your stack is between 5 and 10 big blinds, you really want to start shoving into unraised pots very wide. At that range, you still have fold equity, as your stack is big enough to hurt players calling you wide, but your stack is small enough that it isn't worth making a standard 2.5 or 3 bb raise. My ranges vary a bit, based on position and table dynamic, but if I am around 10 bb, I am shoving any unopened pot with any ace, a lot of broadway combos, a lot of mid to high suited connectors.
Regarding ICM, ICM stands for Independant Chip Model. It is somewhat of an advanced cooncept if you are still learning about equity and EV, but it is basically a way of looking at the payout structure and player's stacks to determine the approximate dollar value of your stack. In tournament play, this is very important. For example, let's say you are on the bubble of a tournament, you have AK on the button. Two smaller stacks go all-in in front of you, then a stack that has you covered goes all in. In many situations, you would be justified in calling. But using ICM, you can determine that calling this bet actually loses you money, so it is an easy fold.
Let's make sure you understand equity against ranges and EV first before we start talking ICM.