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So I decided to never again play Ace-King! So I decided to never again play Ace-King!

09-21-2018 , 02:21 PM
Hello everyone. New player here. I have only been playing live poker maybe a year. 1-2 NL Texas Holdem Though I have read, like, maybe 25 books. I watched videos on Youtube. I play very low stakes NL poker online (.05/.10) lol. Just for practice.

There's a hand that I hate. His first name is Big and his second name is Slick. I hate, hate, hate Big Slick.

Call me a nit. Call me a rock. Call me a tight-ass. Say I'm a newb. You are right. But I will never again play Ace-King. I have lost soooooo much money with Ace-King over the past few months, it's not funny. I am now paranoid I think.

Examples:

A few weeks ago, I get Ace-King UTG, I raise to $17 and there are 2 callers. Flop comes A-9-4. I bet $35. Villain hesitates and calls. Turn card comes a King. I go all in. Villain calls. he was trapping with a set of 9's. I lost about $150 on that hand.

Another example., I have A-K on the button. 5 limpers, I bet $20. 5 callers. Flop comes Ah 10s,9s. It's checked to me. I bet out $50. 1 caller. Turn comes the 8 of clubs. He checks. I bet $25. he calls. River is a blank. He bets $75. I think for a while and I just call. He shows me Qs-Js and he's got the nuts.

I get A-K again in mid poisiton and this time I decide that if someone wants to hit, they got to pay. I raise to $45. Someone goes all in. Pretty tight - aggressive player. I get nervous and I fold. He shows me big slick himself.

I just don't know what the f* to do anymore with A-K. So now I abandoned it. I think I have lost 1200 off of A-K alone in the past 2 months or something like that.

I admit I suck. What am I doing wrong?
So I decided to never again play Ace-King! Quote
09-21-2018 , 02:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Friendlypotz

What am I doing wrong?
You are letting what happened in a few hands (that happen to everyone) cloud your judgment.
So I decided to never again play Ace-King! Quote
09-21-2018 , 04:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VBAces
You are letting what happened in a few hands (that happen to everyone) cloud your judgment.
I don’t think ‘everyone’ is playing the second and third hand like that.

@OP: don’t overplay top pair kind of hands and certainly don’t open for >20BB and then fold when being priced in against QQ+/AK.
So I decided to never again play Ace-King! Quote
09-21-2018 , 06:52 PM
Read about reverse implied odds and pot control. Should be helpful. You overvalue AK postflop. And start to study the game. It could be interesting and you will probably enjoy poker more.
So I decided to never again play Ace-King! Quote
09-21-2018 , 07:05 PM
I’d also stop playing aces, kings, straights, sets.....basically anything that isn’t the nuts as all of these hands can be 2nd best.
So I decided to never again play Ace-King! Quote
09-21-2018 , 10:01 PM
How much money have you won with AK? What about with Aces; do you remember the last big hand you had with Aces? Did you lose with them?

Folding AK pre-flop is generally not the most profitable move you can make with them.
So I decided to never again play Ace-King! Quote
09-22-2018 , 10:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DisRuptive1
How much money have you won with AK? What about with Aces; do you remember the last big hand you had with Aces? Did you lose with them?

Folding AK pre-flop is generally not the most profitable move you can make with them.
I won only a few small pots with Ace King. If an Ace comes I bet and everyone folds. Usually I win very little and lose a lot!!!! With small pairs I lose very little but when I hit a set I usually win a lot and it makes them worthwhile. Ace-X suited, I will hope to flop a flush or flush draw.

I generally only play A-x suited, big pairs, small pairs and suited connectors and hands like J-9 suited. I throw away A-K, A-Q and A-J (unless suited).

With aces, I basically play like this. If I am in bad position, I call, I hope someone raises and there are lots of calls or a re-raise. Then when it comes back to my turn, I smash that pot with half my stack or I go all in. If I am in late position, I tend to just make a big raise and pickup the blinds. Once in a while someone will call. If the board looks scary, I just check-call it down. For example J-9-10 and someone bets $15, I will call. If the board looks ok, I usually bet huge and hope nobody has a set. I lose once in a while but if they hit their set on me, it's with the wrong odds. Aces are a money maker.

My favorite hands are small pairs, A-X suited, and suited connectors. I make a lot of money this way. I have lost a fortune on A-K.
So I decided to never again play Ace-King! Quote
09-23-2018 , 05:32 AM
So basically it sounds like you play in what is a very predictable manner which allows the opposition to know exactly when they are ahead, combine that with what madlex said and think how you can adjust your game. If you are screaming out "I have TPTK" to the world and someone is willing to play for stacks with you, then do you think they're going to show down worse?
So I decided to never again play Ace-King! Quote
09-23-2018 , 06:24 AM
Why are you raising it to $17 preflop? $6 is enough.
if 5 players are going to call a 10BB raise then what are you raising for? Adjust.
raise to $6.

Use AK to win big pots with straights. dont lose your stack against potential flushes full houses.

AK is a drawing hand to win big pots with straights. Perhaps trips/fullhouses too.
So I decided to never again play Ace-King! Quote
09-23-2018 , 06:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerhsmtt
Why are you raising it to $17 preflop? $6 is enough.
You've not played live, have you?
So I decided to never again play Ace-King! Quote
09-23-2018 , 06:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sixfour
You've not played live, have you?
live mtts. regularly 4 players calling my rare utg raises 7 handed. while commenting i must have a big hand.

putting $17 in with AK putting your self in a vulnerable spot on the flop with 90bb deep against multiple players doesn't seem smart.

edit: he said he lost $150 so 65BB. (75BB = $150) still not the ideal spot for a beginner.

He's best off limping with AK and looking to hit a straight postflop with mutiple players and limp/3bet pf with AK when facing a bet to thin the field and play against 1 opponent postflop. if you look at the first hand if he limped and 99 bet he could of then shoved with AK preflop. wouldnt off had 3 players in the hand and maybe 99 would of folded. I haven't played live cash so maybe the dealer would of farted.

AK vs 99 preflop is better than trip 99s vs pair of aces with K kicker on the flop or two pair with a 8% chance of winning with 1 card to come putting all your chips in.

55/45 isn't too bad. with a chance of 99 folding pre too. if live players are raising 10BB with AK they are probably doing it with 99s too. easy 13+ BB win with AK if 99s fold.

Last edited by pokerhsmtt; 09-23-2018 at 07:10 AM.
So I decided to never again play Ace-King! Quote
09-23-2018 , 06:57 AM
So you've not played live cash, where raising to $15 is pretty standard and making it $6 will just be regarded as a limp
So I decided to never again play Ace-King! Quote
09-23-2018 , 07:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sixfour
So you've not played live cash, where raising to $15 is pretty standard and making it $6 will just be regarded as a limp
If making it $6 pre with AK is regarded as a limp then our game plan with limping with AK is to hit a straight where we are more likely to beat trips with a straight than having two pair.

op could of folded flop and saved himself mid 100 dollars when he was miles behind. op could of got a hooker with that money.

op could of saved himself $168 on hand 2 playing the strategy I'm suggesting so he could of got another hooker the same night or the next day.

op most likely would of chopped hand 3 if villian raised and called ops 3 bet shove and op could of won a small pot if villian folded. could of brought a mcdonalds meal with that money. if villian called his shove he potentially could of stacked him hitting a flush and got himself a third hooker. if he got stacked then he could of posted it in the bad beat section on this forum and entertain us.

Last edited by pokerhsmtt; 09-23-2018 at 07:39 AM.
So I decided to never again play Ace-King! Quote
09-23-2018 , 07:49 AM
$1/2 live plays much bigger than the smallest games on the web. Probably not the worst idea to abort all of the middle hands that you aren't sure how to play, like AK, and wait for cheap flops to flop two pair, sets, and big pairs to make money.
So I decided to never again play Ace-King! Quote
09-23-2018 , 11:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerhsmtt
If making it $6 pre with AK is regarded as a limp then our game plan with limping with AK is to hit a straight where we are more likely to beat trips with a straight than having two pair.

op could of folded flop and saved himself mid 100 dollars when he was miles behind. op could of got a hooker with that money.

op could of saved himself $168 on hand 2 playing the strategy I'm suggesting so he could of got another hooker the same night or the next day.

op most likely would of chopped hand 3 if villian raised and called ops 3 bet shove and op could of won a small pot if villian folded. could of brought a mcdonalds meal with that money. if villian called his shove he potentially could of stacked him hitting a flush and got himself a third hooker. if he got stacked then he could of posted it in the bad beat section on this forum and entertain us.
So the gameplan is to raise preflop and fold anytime he doesn't flop a straight which will be more than 99% of the time?

2 pair against a set is one of those classic confrontations, a situation where 99% of poker players will go broke. but it's very rare and don't let this event affect your play.
So I decided to never again play Ace-King! Quote
09-23-2018 , 12:15 PM
It doesn’t even matter if we play cash game or a tournament with similar stack sizes. If other players are willing to pay 10BB with a dominated range, we want to open to 10BB.

That’s especially true for playing OOP with hands like AK and stacks of 100BB or less. To illustrate that with a simple example:
a) we open AKo from UTG to 10BB and get one caller, pot on the flop 21.5BB
b) we open AKo from UTG to 3BB and get 7 callers (including BB), pot on the flop 21.5BB

What scenario looks more profitable?

To take it to an extreme, if we can openshove AA from UTG and everyone else calls with a 30% range, we are printing money. So why should we raise to 3BB instead?
So I decided to never again play Ace-King! Quote
09-23-2018 , 12:17 PM
Results orientated. The 1st hand you cited is a cooler. What about the hands in which you have AK and your opponent stacks off with AQ on an ace high flop. Electing to never play a hand that's high in the hand rankings on the basis that your losing a lot is pretty illogical.
So I decided to never again play Ace-King! Quote
09-23-2018 , 04:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Friendlypotz
With aces, I basically play like this. If I am in bad position, I call, I hope someone raises and there are lots of calls or a re-raise. Then when it comes back to my turn, I smash that pot with half my stack or I go all in.
You might as will flip your hand over when you do this.
Quote:
If I am in late position, I tend to just make a big raise and pickup the blinds. Once in a while someone will call. If the board looks scary, I just check-call it down. For example J-9-10 and someone bets $15, I will call. If the board looks ok, I usually bet huge and hope nobody has a set. I lose once in a while but if they hit their set on me, it's with the wrong odds. Aces are a money maker.
They're an even bigger money maker when you build a pot instead of being scared of monsters under the bed and assuming people are calling with exactly KQ preflop.
Quote:
My favorite hands are small pairs, A-X suited, and suited connectors. I make a lot of money this way. I have lost a fortune on A-K.
Have you put any of your online hands into tracking software to actually verify that AXs is a bigger money maker for you than AK? I checked my database, and I win about 4 times as much with AK than AXs:


Last edited by otatop; 09-23-2018 at 04:25 PM.
So I decided to never again play Ace-King! Quote
09-23-2018 , 04:18 PM
If you lose money with a hand when it makes top pair top kicker, which happens about 1/3 of the time, shouldn't you also not fold aces because they make top pair 90% of the time?
So I decided to never again play Ace-King! Quote
09-24-2018 , 01:05 PM
Hand 1: My standard at 1/2 is $10 or $12. Don't raise bigger because you hate AK, when you're called in more than one spot, the pot's already getting big, you're OOP, thus your decisions become harder. Villain's hesitate-call is the classic reverse tell. Your radar should pick up on that.

Your shove OTT is terrible. Every hand you beat folds, when called you're almost always crushed.

Hand 2: pre is fine, but that flop smashes callers' ranges and you have no outs that are 100% clean. I don't think I have multiple streets of value so I might check unless it looks like everyone else hates the flop. River hits too many ranges. Easy fold.

Hand 3: LOL tilt spew.
So I decided to never again play Ace-King! Quote
09-24-2018 , 01:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurn, son of Mogh
Hand 1: My standard at 1/2 is $10 or $12. Don't raise bigger because you hate AK, when you're called in more than one spot, the pot's already getting big, you're OOP, thus your decisions become harder. Villain's hesitate-call is the classic reverse tell. Your radar should pick up on that.
If he gets two calls for $17 then he could arguably make it even bigger.

Quote:
Your shove OTT is terrible. Every hand you beat folds, when called you're almost always crushed.
Pot on the flop is at least $51, add another $70 on the turn and OP is left with $98 into a pot of $121. Shoving is fine.
So I decided to never again play Ace-King! Quote
09-24-2018 , 01:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurn, son of Mogh
Your shove OTT is terrible. Every hand you beat folds, when called you're almost always crushed.
This is unbelievably nitty. You realize he has top two, right? Even if the turn wasn't a K he could shove and get called by worse.
So I decided to never again play Ace-King! Quote
09-24-2018 , 08:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurn, son of Mogh
Hand 1: My standard at 1/2 is $10 or $12. Don't raise bigger because you hate AK, when you're called in more than one spot, the pot's already getting big, you're OOP, thus your decisions become harder.
OOP decisions get easier the bigger the pot gets compared to stack sizes. If hero raises to $50 and gets two any-two callers to see a flop with $150 in the pot and $150 behind, the hand plays itself if he hits the flop.
So I decided to never again play Ace-King! Quote
09-25-2018 , 08:20 AM
I stand corrected on the turn shove.
So I decided to never again play Ace-King! Quote
09-25-2018 , 01:27 PM
Ace King is a big hand at 1-2. It's a premium hand that comes up more than any other premium hand. It's supposed to be one of your bread and butter hands. I'm not meaning to be offensive but there's something messed up with your thinking if you prefer suited aces and suited connectors over ace king.
So I decided to never again play Ace-King! Quote

      
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