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Old 01-11-2018, 08:42 AM   #1
BootsyDan
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Slow Time Limit

Hi, I am new to online poker and looking to practice first at free tables to get a feel for it before moving on to real money tables. However the couple I have tried so far move incredibly fast - with just 20 seconds time limit to make your move or be folded. I find this insane, as it gives no opportunity to properly calculate the odds of your hand, leaving an awful lot up to luck. How does anyone play poker this way?

So I'm wondering if someone can recommend a free poker site with longer time limit? Something closer to a minute would be nice.

I'm also wondering if real money tables online operate the same way, with just the 20 seconds, or if there are options for longer amounts of time there?
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Old 01-11-2018, 08:49 AM   #2
Tapirboy
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Re: Slow Time Limit

You get used to doing it quickly. Especially in holdem, most odds calculations fall into a small number of categories, and once you've done them a couple hundred times they become intuitive and almost instantaneous. Just plug on and before long you'll be doing it that way too. You can also practice doing odds calculations off the table by reviewing hand histories.

On real money tables you'll still have a short time limit for most actions but you also have a time bank you can use to add an extra minute or so for particularly difficult spots. It replenishes slowly so you can't use it every hand.
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Old 01-11-2018, 12:03 PM   #3
NINzent
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Re: Slow Time Limit

WPN has an insnaley long time bank (which I personally highly dislike)
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Old 01-11-2018, 11:22 PM   #4
BootsyDan
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Re: Slow Time Limit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tapirboy View Post
You get used to doing it quickly. Especially in holdem, most odds calculations fall into a small number of categories, and once you've done them a couple hundred times they become intuitive and almost instantaneous. Just plug on and before long you'll be doing it that way too. You can also practice doing odds calculations off the table by reviewing hand histories.

On real money tables you'll still have a short time limit for most actions but you also have a time bank you can use to add an extra minute or so for particularly difficult spots. It replenishes slowly so you can't use it every hand.
Thanks, I guess I'd rather start by learning to be accurate than learning to be fast. I'm sure the more I do it the quicker it will become and I'll be ready for the faster online play, but that's certainly not where I want to start off.

If there are no slow free online sites, is there free play against the computer software which can be downloaded allowing you to go at your own pace? Otherwise I guess I'll just have to go fast and learn by replaying the hands as you suggest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NINzent View Post
WPN has an insnaley long time bank (which I personally highly dislike)
Thanks. Had a look at their limits and still seems very fast. 18 seconds per hand with 20-80sec timebank depending on the stakes. I personally don't mind waiting a while for opponents to make their move as it gives you time to study their playing style, but I can see if you've already got that worked out why it might test your patience. Plus if you're used to making moves in under 20 seconds, double that must seem like a long time!
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Old 01-12-2018, 01:45 AM   #5
SpewingIsMyMove
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Re: Slow Time Limit

Quote:
Originally Posted by BootsyDan View Post
Hi, I am new to online poker and looking to practice first at free tables to get a feel for it before moving on to real money tables. However the couple I have tried so far move incredibly fast - with just 20 seconds time limit to make your move or be folded. I find this insane, as it gives no opportunity to properly calculate the odds of your hand, leaving an awful lot up to luck. How does anyone play poker this way?

So I'm wondering if someone can recommend a free poker site with longer time limit? Something closer to a minute would be nice.

I'm also wondering if real money tables online operate the same way, with just the 20 seconds, or if there are options for longer amounts of time there?
I don't say this to be critical, as we were all new players once and had to take time to figure things out, but you really should be able to make 90% of your decisions in less than 5 seconds. Again, this is not a criticism, just a target you can aim at.

A few tips
1. YOu don't need exact equities, you can use the rule of 2 and 4 as a shortcut
2. Memorize equities of common situations.
3. Drill, drill, drill. Remember hands you played, and then calculate the equity (first by hand, and then using an equity calculator like equilab to check your work).

A vast majority of poker is pattern recognition, and the same patterns recur over and over. the more you practice, the faster you will be able to make straightforward decisions very quickly.
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Old 01-12-2018, 04:18 AM   #6
sixfour
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Re: Slow Time Limit

Most decisions don't take more than a second or two to make, if it's moderately difficult then having 10-15 is fine, if it's really close then that's what the timebank is for
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Old 01-12-2018, 12:03 PM   #7
Didace
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Re: Slow Time Limit

20 seconds is a really long time. What is your thought process that is taking so long? Also, you're allowed to think when it isn't your turn.
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Old 01-14-2018, 02:18 AM   #8
BootsyDan
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Re: Slow Time Limit

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpewingIsMyMove View Post
I don't say this to be critical, as we were all new players once and had to take time to figure things out, but you really should be able to make 90% of your decisions in less than 5 seconds. Again, this is not a criticism, just a target you can aim at.

A few tips
1. You don't need exact equities, you can use the rule of 2 and 4 as a shortcut
2. Memorize equities of common situations.
3. Drill, drill, drill. Remember hands you played, and then calculate the equity (first by hand, and then using an equity calculator like equilab to check your work).

A vast majority of poker is pattern recognition, and the same patterns recur over and over. the more you practice, the faster you will be able to make straightforward decisions very quickly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sixfour View Post
Most decisions don't take more than a second or two to make, if it's moderately difficult then having 10-15 is fine, if it's really close then that's what the timebank is for
Quote:
Originally Posted by Didace View Post
20 seconds is a really long time. What is your thought process that is taking so long? Also, you're allowed to think when it isn't your turn.
Thanks all for the replies, seems to be a common answer, which gives me confidence for the future. I am not new to poker, but am new to correct equity calculations etc...

My thought process is... Pre Flop:
a) My stack size (- antes if applicable) / BB. If I'm on short stack and considering the push to all in, compare that number to the Sklansky Chubukov rankings table. If not short stack, and only looking to call/raise, will refer to another table (either Equilab, Malmuth or Nash, haven't worked out my preferred yet) to judge the quality of my opening hand. I haven't memorized these tables yet, so it takes some time referring to them.
b) Check position. If early, will play tight. If late, a bit looser.

*When I get used to doing things more quickly (particularly for tournament play) I will also consider blind stealing here, but not worrying about it yet.

Post Flop:
a) Count Outs
b) Figure Cards Odds. Use the Outs x 2 method for a close approximation.
c) Figure Pot Odds (Pot Size/Call Amount, converted to %).
d) If Pot Odds and Card Odds are very different, I make my decision. If they are very similar, then I do the more exact Card Odds calculation (Unknown Cards/Outs) before making my decision.

*When I can do all of the above quickly (within 20 secs), I then want to practice with a program that compares range equities (such as PokerCruncher, Flopzilla, PokerStove, etc...), so I'm making calls not just based on outs and pod odds, but also a smarter consideration of what my opponent is playing [I used to just do this on instinct, but I'm aware I can improve greatly at it], and what their chances are. Obviously I won't be able to use those programs when playing live, so I imagine that is going to take quite some time learning before I can implement the logic live within 20 secs as well.

Does that sound about the right process to you guys?
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Old 01-14-2018, 08:06 AM   #9
Aces123123
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Re: Slow Time Limit

If you want insanely long time banks you can always play live.
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