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Should i 3-bet or see a flop QQ Should i 3-bet or see a flop QQ

03-09-2012 , 07:06 PM
Playing at my local club and just moved table and have no reads.

Blinds are 500/1000 ante 100, i have 25k. UTG opens to 3000 all fold to cut-off who calls. Im on the button and look down at QQ so i re-raise to 9200.

All fold to UTG who shoves 35k and cut-off folds i call. Flop has an A i lose.

Could i have called the 3000 pre and seen a flop and then folded if A or K come or should i be happy to get it in with 25bb
Should i 3-bet or see a flop QQ Quote
03-09-2012 , 07:08 PM
well played gg. I mean you got 25bbs for god sake that aint ****
Should i 3-bet or see a flop QQ Quote
03-09-2012 , 07:14 PM
25bb is a tricky amount to play with. CO also being in the pot makes it a little tricky too, as he also has a chance to out-flop you. But UTG's range is generally very strong. I'm often calling instead of 3-betting, to either set-mine or flop an overpair. 3-betting means UTG is generally only getting it in with hands that beat you, or have good equity (e.g. AK) against you. If you call and see a flop, villain is out of position, so you can control the pot size, raising/shoving when there is no overcard, and folding when you missed
Should i 3-bet or see a flop QQ Quote
03-10-2012 , 05:11 AM
Grunch.

You're giving up value to achieve a reduction in variance.

Which is another way of saying that you're giving up long-term $$ to achieve short-term .
Should i 3-bet or see a flop QQ Quote
03-10-2012 , 05:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by quux
Grunch.

You're giving up value to achieve a reduction in variance.

Which is another way of saying that you're giving up long-term $$ to achieve short-term .
Sorry not sure exactly what this means but i get jist your saying i should have called instead of got it in??
Should i 3-bet or see a flop QQ Quote
03-10-2012 , 05:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daveyt86
Sorry not sure exactly what this means but i get jist your saying i should have called instead of got it in??
You played it right imo.

What quux means is that your Queens are mathematically ahead of villain's hand (I'm presuming AK here) and so if you played this same hand 100 times you would be statistically likely to win more often than him.

With these specific hands you're about a 57% favourite. So it is tight, but in the long run, you'll make more money by making this play if it all goes in, than losing.

Of course, knowing this does not help you when you're sat out of the tourney coz he binked an Ace.

I'd highly recommend getting Pokerstove. Its a free tool you can download (just Google it) and you can input hands and it will tell you the stats against other hands or ranges of hands, which is how we often decide whether we should be betting or not against that villain.
Should i 3-bet or see a flop QQ Quote
03-10-2012 , 06:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunna100
You played it right imo.

What quux means is that your Queens are mathematically ahead of villain's hand (I'm presuming AK here) and so if you played this same hand 100 times you would be statistically likely to win more often than him.

With these specific hands you're about a 57% favourite. So it is tight, but in the long run, you'll make more money by making this play if it all goes in, than losing.

Of course, knowing this does not help you when you're sat out of the tourney coz he binked an Ace.

I'd highly recommend getting Pokerstove. Its a free tool you can download (just Google it) and you can input hands and it will tell you the stats against other hands or ranges of hands, which is how we often decide whether we should be betting or not against that villain.
Thanks Dunna
Should i 3-bet or see a flop QQ Quote
03-10-2012 , 07:26 AM
57% is not tight. 52% is tight.
Should i 3-bet or see a flop QQ Quote
03-10-2012 , 12:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daveyt86
Sorry not sure exactly what this means but i get jist your saying i should have called instead of got it in??
No, my apologies for being unclear.

What I meant was that while an average UTG opening range is certainly strong, with QQ you're still ahead of that range. And since the goal is to get money into the pot while you're ahead, not doing so is giving up $$ for a bit of security.

You played it fine.
Should i 3-bet or see a flop QQ Quote
03-10-2012 , 12:44 PM
well played
Should i 3-bet or see a flop QQ Quote
03-10-2012 , 12:47 PM
It is better to raise and get it in. Calling to see if there is an A or K on the flop isn't the best play. For all you know he could have pocket Jacks or something and you would fold on a Axx board.
Should i 3-bet or see a flop QQ Quote
03-10-2012 , 12:47 PM
Wp.
Should i 3-bet or see a flop QQ Quote
03-10-2012 , 01:32 PM
Surely we have to consider tournament factors, e.g. bubble and average stack size.

Also if he has a skill edge on the other players then taking a flip is not the best move and vice-versa.
Should i 3-bet or see a flop QQ Quote
03-10-2012 , 01:56 PM
Thanks guys
Should i 3-bet or see a flop QQ Quote
03-10-2012 , 02:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daveyt86
Could i have called the 3000 pre and seen a flop and then folded if A or K come or should i be happy to get it in with 25bb
You have 25 bbs, but your M is only 10. You have QQ on the button. You want all of the money in the pot as fast as humanly possible.
Should i 3-bet or see a flop QQ Quote
03-10-2012 , 05:22 PM
For 25bb with the dead money as well this is a no brainer 3bet and call imo. I mean there are two better hands that he can have. You can't exactly sit around and wait for them all day. QQ is actually a bit of a favorite versus a far more likely holding of his in AK.
Should i 3-bet or see a flop QQ Quote

      
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