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Originally Posted by tombos21
This is an oversimplified view of bluffing.
Absolutely disagree.
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-You gain EV from folding out equity that's already ahead or might outdraw you (fold equity from folding out worse hands before the river is a thing)
-You also gain EV from the implied odds when the bluff fails you outdraw them.
These are both true, but the main driver of bluff ev (at least with pure bluff combos) is from folding out our opponent's equity share, which only happens...because our bluffs represent us having a good hand. If we played a cards up game of poker, bluffs with the purpose of equity denial would never work. Of course, we would still deny some equity when we bet a bluff and our opponent has a worse hand than our bluff and folds anyway.
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It also doesn't really have anything to do with Stremba's point.
No, it absolutely has to do with Stremba's point. Stremba's (seemingly intended) point is that good players can realize when they have the best hand or a strong enough draw to continue, and can avoid putting money in in other situations.
My counterpoint is that good poker players relatively frequently put money into the pot even if they 1) think it's very unlikely they have the best hand and 2) don't have a good draw. That is, good players will regularly bet in Stremba's third "neither" category, and will regularly use "neither" category hands as triple barrel bluffs.
So my main contention is that bluffing is a complete counterpoint to Stremba's view that good players only put money into pots with hands that are 1) likely to be the best or 2) likely to become the best. Good players will bluff with plenty of hands where both of these don't apply, and that's part of a solid and balanced strategy, and I think this really invalidates Stremba's whole post.
I'm a bit curious why you think it's an irrelevant point though?