My inability to win is getting kind of ridiculous now.

I play on WSOP.com, so I don’t have hand histories. I’ll ask you to take a leap of faith and believe me when I say I should be a winning player.

Not only can I not win a session, I can barely win a hand. Doesn’t matter if it’s 2NL, 10NL or 50NL. Doesn’t matter if it’s an SNG or an MTT. Doesn’t matter if I am single tabling or multi-tabling (4 max).

I wish I were being out-played, then I could make adjustments. Instead I am losing to 3-outers and the like. If I have pocket Kings, someone has Ace X and an Ace will make an appearance at some point on the board. If that doesn’t happen, it’s only because nobody called my pre-flop raise!

At this point, even if I should have a winning session, and over many months I have had some (a few), what good is it if I am trading wins and losses?

I’ve read books, I used to prop limit, I watch videos, I watch vlogs, and so on. I simply cannot make any connections with the board. I’m just sitting here SMH and trying to find words to explain, but all I can say is I don’t know where to go from here.

I’m not the best player on WSOP, but I’m not a fool. I’m not a station. I don’t limp first in.

I don’t want to quit. I don’t know what to do.

I just scanned through all 85+ posts you have done here on 2+2 since Sept 2017. I see no (none, zip, zilch,nana...you get the point) posts by you in strategy hand history threads.

I recommend you start your studies all over again by participating in hand history threads....don't just read them! Participate. Posting your thoughts about difficult situations WILL make you a better player. You will get pushback when your thoughts (strat) are incorrect...and they will be as they have been for everyone else as they dip their toes into REALLY learning.

Watching videos, watching vlogs, watching....watching....is not working for you. Participate. Stop asking generically awful questions.....like this thread.

Sounds like negativity bias to me.
::: Shruuug: ::. Study more.

I've looked at hand history threads from time to time. I don't have the option of using a HUD, and although I could learn what the stats meant, I personally wouldn't have information like that on WSOP.com. However, I will spend some time looking through it and see if it can apply to my situations in some way. I always believed the responses were related to the information given from the HUD, or why else would they even be posted?

Additionally, I'm not finding myself so much in situations such as tough calls, as much as losing to my opponent catching one of very few cards he can catch to beat me.

I actually won a bit tonight. There were no miracle river cards for my opponents and even though I made nothing higher than one pair all night, my bluffs got through, my one pair held up, or I wasn't called on the river.

I do appreciate your suggestion.

I read the rules when I joined this forum. One of them was no trolling (shame really, a well done one can be quite funny imho). There should be a no whining/personal responsibility rule. In the last two days my email notifications (Unfortunately I emptied the trash so I can't provide the links) have linked me to the posts about poker is all luck (and the ranting replies from the OP) , this one, and another one that have the same thing in common; some variation of "I'd be a winning player if only..." the "if only" never being: 1) stuck to the fundamentals that are explained on this forum over and over. 2) studied. 3) reviewed my hands. 4)etc.
I am a small stakes player (1/2 cash or 25NL). Blew through about $2500 while reading poker books and this forum. Then I forced myself to have some discipline and stop splashing and free lancing like I was some kind of poker prodigy and actually started using the concepts that I had learned. I stick to fundamental play, sit out as many hands as it takes to get an accurate read on the other players. Immediately analyze my play on a lost pot (and yes most of the time I'll recall something I've read that points out my error). Online I play full ring, 6-handed, 3-handed, sit and go, zone, and tournaments so that I can be exposed to many different situations. I am by no means a pro or crusher. But playing at my stakes, I'm a winning player (finally!), never the fish and sometimes even the bully at the table. I had to admit my hardheadedness before this occurred. Sorry for the rant.

I'm sure there's some good intel in that rant, but without clearly defined paragraphs it's just too hard to read. Looks like one long run on sentence.

"Could learn what the stats mean" is a good first step.

UGH. You will invariably have a hand that resembles every HH posted on 2+2.

No. Hand histories are about the hands. The stats given are helpful of course. But lots of HH threads begin with...."2nd hand in, I have no stats on anyone". And to go one further, you can create your own.

I expect your reply will be some variant of "except it is boring to play one table and take copious notes." I would ask you in return, do you want to crush your stakes? By filling notebooks and then comparing your own generated stats on your opponents.... you will likely find patterns

You have asked in the past about how to multitable. Terrible thought for you as you are still learning how to play.... and more importantly! without a HUD, you will be SIGNIFICANTLY hurting your (possible) winrate. Good multitablers rely on their stats. You don't have that option on WSOP Nevada.

You say NOT having a HUD is hurting your winrate. Hogwash. No one on your site has a HUD. Yet I expect there are consistent winners.

[[as an aside, without a HUD and the ability to review HHs...you really are in the dark about how much villains are sucking out on the river. It is called selective bias....you remember the losses and do not remember the times you had the SAME hand structure and never got to showdown because villain folded. Combine those wins with the times you DO get to showdown and win...... probably will converge to the norm after 100K hands-ish.]]

Good luck...and as Mr Big Stack said, you are not alone. Others have had the same experiences as you. You are probably a losing player; no shame in that. Enjoy the game as you learn. Because you don't have the stats, you can't prove that you are a winner....all we (and YOU) can do is look at your declining balance.

What kind of stats do you have that back up your claim? Or is it just a gut feeling?

I'll read your post again after dinner. It's loaded with good information. Thank you for your effort on my behalf!

Did I really say not having a HUD is hurting my win rate? I simply never used one, so never learned how to decipher.

Hey, two wins in a row for me! Again, no big hands. One pair was best I had, but it was enough.

I like very much that after 100k hands it would look more normal, that you mentioned. And no, online I am not a winning player, which was the point of the thread. However, I'll play 1/2 live from time to time with much better results. But for several reasons unimportant to this discussion, I need to play online and I am playing one table, and fine with that.

So one final thing before taking a break. I think I might be better off reading those HH that do not refer to the HUD when people responded with their thoughts. Reason being, I won't have that option and would rather see an analysis based on actions, not stats. Makes sense?

And one more thing, a question, really. I have succinct notes on players that are saved on the site, but honestly never considered a more elaborate system. If possible, perhaps a rough example of how I could elaborate?

Hi. Thanks for your comment. Right, I have no stats, but it's more than a gut feeling. For example, I know when I'm out played and I know when I get lucky or when someone gets lucky on me.

If I fold AQ because of a re-raise, but another player calls, when I see their hands, the lone caller shows the AQ (or less), and loses to the raiser. I'm not making those kinds of mistakes. I'm consistently losing to 3-outers and luckboxes.

I've been playing poker for a very long time. I was a winning player at stud high, and limit holdem up to 6/12, and I propped for a few years. I am simply being unlucky and I guess I was looking for an answer when no answer really exists, except to say it will even out eventually, and in the meantime, just keep working on my game.

I think all HHs would have value for you. Solidify what is important.

As an example, when a HH conversation takes off and it revolves around villain's 3Bet (PF) range, you will find value in why that stat is important in this situation.

You may not have little numbers floating along the inside of your sunglasses, but you know the WSOP villain in Seat 5 3Bets more than the normal (make a note! Only from late position? make a note. Does he ever from the blinds....make a note.

Put it all together and you may find yourself having a very good idea of what villain is holding when he 3Bs...and when he doesn't and just calls.

You play live successfully I assume because you pay attention. Live play now has more fish than a typical online micro table. You have to understand that online, villains aren't going overboard with TPTK like they do live.....or like they did back when I was playing, right after Moneymaker. Nothing you can do will change that.

About notes.....there are a ton of threads around (Search function in BQ and micro areas). What do you find important? Me...I want to know things like
"Does he bet draws" "Does he go after orphan pots" "What hands does he bet big on the river" I'm sure you have a few that you want to know.....so, make a note every time you see it.

Excellent! Thank you much!!

Excellent observation. When I'm typing a reply I tap the space bar twice to start a paragraph. I also tap the enter button twice after the last sentence. For some reason what you see is the format that winds up posting. Maybe it's because I am on a phone instead of a lap/desktop?

OP I've been ridiculed in the past for constantly re-link to my 3-year-old 4-year-anniversary post, but I think it might help you:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/3...32/?highlight=

OP - the beautiful thing about poker is that most players actually believe that they should be winning players. You clearly fall into this category. You believe that you "should" be a winning player. But I promise you that if I were to sweat you that I would find glaring leaks in your game. When I put in big volume online I did not have a losing month for several years.

We all take our share of beats and suckouts. You most likely have serious problems with your fundamentals. Getting good at poker does not happen by accident. It happens with hard work. Hard work is not playing poker for 20+ years. Some of the biggest whales I have ever played with have been playing for decades. Hard work comes in the form of study and work away from the tables. It is not fun and it is time consuming. But the good news is very few are willing to do it AND there is a lot of money to be won at the tables

Wow! A lot to read but I will gobble it all up! Thank you so much for posting~

Possibly, but I will take the time to copy and paste it into Word, and create my own paragraphs. Thanks!

This thread is really helping lurking n00bs. I know this because I didn't realize the true importance and point of hand analysis besides bragging/whining and now I see. I've been avoiding hand analysis on /r/poker because I struggle to figure out all the shorthand, but now I understand exactly where my work needs to start. Thank you.

YESSSS! A shout-out to King Spew for this intel. Much appreciated!

Thanks for commenting. What advice would you share as far as study material?

I do understand that hard work is not just playing for many years. I have done well when I played live, but most of those years was stud high or limit holdem.

PG - where to start:

In your op you mentioned a wide array of formats. Personally I would advise picking a single format and become an expert at that format (ie full ring live 1/2 nlh). If I were chosing that particular 1, I would then go to live low stakes cash strat in 2p2 and read all of the stickies. I would then construct opening ranges for every position. This is step 1- and build my game from the ground up (dozens of more steps) taking my time every step of the way to understand exactly how the big time winners attack and view the game and see if I can eventually duplicate their thought process. I would then proceed to print money.

if your playing mtts or sngs you should learn to play alot of hands. you need to know when to get your chips in and know when to fold postflop.

you can learn this through playing and reviewing after a session.

That's great LS...except OP doesn't play at a site that shares hand histories. Reviewing a session is done....how?

during a session you can think about the last hands you played.
after a session you can think of hands you played and whether you would of played them differently.
playing mutiple tables your not going to be able to do this. frankly op shouldn't be playing more than 1 table anyways.

I’ll ask you to take a leap of faith and believe me when I say I should be a winning player.

sounds like a person with both an ego problem and an inflated self image.
There is a BIG difference between a short term bad variance run and someone making unsound decisions and not even knowing it.
You need to own it !