Maybe when I'll get better I'll try this, but not sure I'd have the balls to go with a 5bet with A5s right now. But thanks, I'll check this strategy.

FWIW, Snowie almost never 5-bet jams A5s or indeed any non-premium hand, at least not in 6-max games. (It may well be different heads up. When I played Slumbot, it often flatted 4-bets with KK and the 5-bet always seemed to be AA).

Most of Snowie's 5-bets are min 5-bets (with KK+/AK) to induce. AK is basically the balancer for AA/KK in a balanced 5-bet range. The DonkR articles were a nice try at an unexploitable strategy, but they aren't correct.

What are you using as a reference for "correctness?" If it is Snowie, I think it is wrong to consider Snowie optimal. Why don't you post some of Snowie's ranges at each decision node in the tree for one of these spots where it chooses to min-5-bet and we can disprove it's optimality (verifying optimality is harder).

And this thread is why I say any posts trying to bring GTO concepts into BQ should be deleted

Agreed

Not really, 64.

GTO is a poker strategy and we have to assume that if a noob gets to 2+2...they have probably at least HEARD of GTO. So that naturally leads to questions here in BQ.

Deleted, no.

Adding a comment to each and every GTO thread about how "learning GTO strategy should not be a beginner goal" (and briefly WHY), oh heck yeah, good advice for BQ.

If a beginner (or early studier) wants to waste time on GTO....let that person decide.

I'm not saying Snowie is optimal, because it's not, because no one has a complete solution to 6-max pre-flop.
I don't have a subscription any more, but the charts I made from its strategy showed, for example, that when the BB 3-bets vs BTN, it has a bunch of 3b/folds including A5s, JTs, AJo and several other hands using mixed strats, it flats the 4-bet with most combos of AQ, AQs-ATs (again, there is some mixing), and min 5-bets JJ+/AK and never folds to a 6-bet jam.
In many other spots, it flats the 4-bet with KK (and other hands), and only min 5-bets AA, some AK and sometimes QQ. I remember it having a very low frequency (like 4%) 5-bet with a random Axs, but it was generally extremely nutted when it 5-bets.

The reason I think Donkr was "incorrect" is because full solutions would almost certainly feature mixed strategies, and the card removal effects become extremely prominent in 4b/5b pots, so AK is much better than A5s.

With respect it has nothing to do with Snowies ranges, or any other random persons strat. A clearly fishy noob poster insulted a more experienced poster because he suggested that you have to be drunk to 5bet jam A5s.

Any experienced, half-decent, NLHE cash player knows the role Axs pays in a balanced preflop strategy (and equally when to employ an unbalanced XPLO 5 bet value range), and muddying the waters discussing random bot ranges is not helping the original poster.

You don't have to have any particular GTO skills to know any of this, or any advanced theory, just read a decent NLHE primer.

It is absolutely relevant to BQ in 2019.

Don't see how that's relevant because experience doesn't win discussions. Arguments do. He insulted someone for having a different opinion, which is bad enough.

Why would you ever min 5-bet/never fold instead of 5-bet jam? I guess Snowie thinks the EVs are the same so it doesn't matter?

Why would Snowie flat such a specific narrow range? Isn't it extremely exploitable to see a flop with a range that is only AQ-AT? On low boards we never have a pair.

There are some contrived examples where AKs is not as good as A5s, such as when KK is sometimes folded and AKs blocks the folding range, but yeah, it makes sense that the vast majority of the time you'd choose AKs over A5s.

Is AK ever flatted earlier in the tree? That would be one situation where perhaps A5s is 5-bet just because there aren't enough AKs combos to balance.

**** me, could you split hairs and derail any better than this

OK I'll reword it.

A guys whose posts, by content, demonstrate a modicum of fishy noob, insulted another guy, who seems to know what he is talking about, by stating words to the effect of only drunks 5bet jam A5s.

this is clearly a post of horse manure

We all happy now?

It's quite mysterious, but I think the min 5-bet gives the opponent the chance to make a bad call or a bad shove with something from his/her light 4-bet range. (4-bet ranges are typically very polarized, containing hands like A6o or ATo or A2s that don't work well as flats of 3-bets. An opponent that flats a min 5-bet, or 6-bet jams A6o with no fold equity, isn't going to do very well.)
AQs-ATs make up a decent chunk of the range it flats 4-bets with, but it flats with TT-88 (and sometimes better and sometimes worse pairs) from time to time. There's loads of mixing going on, and each positional battle has different ranges.
Yes. In fact, there are some spots (like CO or BTN vs an UTG open*) where it 3-bet/calls KK and AKs in position, but 3b/5-bets QQ and AKo. It's possible that some Axs might also appear in its 5-bet range occasionally, but when I built my charts I ignored anything that had a super-low frequency.
My analysis of those spots where it called with KK/AKs instead of 5-betting was that KK and AKs do very well flatting 4-bets in position vs a 4-bet range containing some Axs (KK/AKs also 'protect' some of the lighter calls), but that QQ is more vulnerable (it hates seeing overcards on the flop), so it usually 5-bets QQ/AKo and calls a jam.
In a spot where the player in position can 4-bet, Snowie often flats KK, QQ and AK, and its (very polarized) 4-bet range is very narrow and is mostly made of AA and some Ax airballs. According to Snowie, KK/QQ apparently have a slightly higher EV as calls in position instead of 4-bets in many spots. (i.e. It doesn't stack off KK pre-flop particularly often).

Snowie almost always hits the re-raise button with AA, but there are a couple of spots where it sometimes flats 4-bets with the nuts. This tallies with how some regs play. Quite a few regs say they like to flat with AA in MP v an UTG 4-bet, and I can kind of see their point. (If you 5-bet in that spot, it's hard to get any action, as everyone puts you on aces, but flatting with AA keeps all the bluffs in).

The kind of summary I'd use for Snowie's 3b/4b/5b strat is that it does a lot of calling in position when faced by 3-bets, the 4-bet ranges are extremely polarized (especially in position), and the (min) 5-bet ranges are very nutted.

* In MP vs UTG at the micro level, it flats QQ, but has AKo as a 3b/fold, apparently because UTG's 4-bet range is so strong.

FWIW, I said hands like A5s would only be jammed vs good players who are trying to play balanced, and that the Donkr articles were outdated and that I was only suggesting the person read them to understand the basic reasoning behind it. I.e., not drunk jamming lol

Newbs won't ever have to or should do this. I just mentioned it's a possibility that is valid under the right circumstances.

https://i.gyazo.com/a0871cc6b2fbfc1f...0163611a5c.png

There ya go m8. BB 3bet vs SB 3x, then facing 4bet jams A5s almost all the time.

Thanks m8, gr8 to know that, cause I'm obviously autistic and got emotional over
In a spot where I assumed MP opens and we are on the button.

I would also like to apologise for misunderstanding @WorldzMine's post.

And spewing a statement that is wrong.

Cool. It's interesting to see it flats AA, but 5-bet jams a bunch of stuff.