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Range Construction Question For Calling 3bets Range Construction Question For Calling 3bets

10-20-2018 , 08:12 PM
hi been tryna dial preflop somewhat rather than winging it on the fly.

been thinking about 3bets and what hands too call them with im tryna play a tight 6max game and do mean tight as its not that i want to play weak just i want mathematical edges going into hands not battling range vs same range as sort of wheres the edge there mathematically when you calling with similar hands as to what their 3betting by and large... (just cause everyones super aggro bluff off 3 streets in 3bet pots ace high sort of aggro in my games).

Anyway point being ive worked out what im raising first in... its nitty now by the way and i know i got to defend against 3bets cause there so prominent as in seen players 3bet 1/2 hands vs sb 20%-33% vs lp 18-25% (ip) vs mp/ep so theres alot of of very very wide 3bets going on least the games i seem to be playing i also feel like loads of its ego with regulars too, i personally did use to 3bet loads myself but prefer flatting far more now as think people make bigger mistakes overall postflop than pre so why help them play more correct against you pre when your trying to create situations for mistakes to happen while avoiding big ones yourself.

my vpip for rfi is or will be going forward 18.19% (i wanna go for fat value and play mathematically profitable hands basically from each position assuming knowing no info on opponents right off the bat, also think should help me bluff more effectively) and i want to defend initially half of everything i raise but decided 42% should be adequate so 7.63% but im of two minds about what hands too defend (also im not into 4betting least not in position makes ranges too face and helps them play better against you, its just really not my style i like playing and seeing flops and turns and not turn it into tournament style shove fest).

my question was as title says what do i defend i have two ideas at first thought just defend akoff to ajsuited pockets to 6 and suited connectors down to 87suited (was what i used to do way back when first started playing over fold as i was loose back then too but folded way too much to 3bets given my looseness) .
but then i thought about it a bit and people over cbet in 3bet pots in the games i play regardless of board texture their hand or anything and bet turn too some even just 3 street it and leave a 40bb left river and still fold to raise even though alot of times their priced to call if they got almost anything so there bluffs can turn into hands by river even if weak ones and i rarely make ace high call downs even if its right it feels stupid cause its marginal and im playing micro stakes... so board their range overall and betting pattern/frequencies for streets, sizing if they got tell their gotta justify it for me as i dont want to get into a levelling war. ive called down with mid and small pockets alot and been good or hit mid pairs while they barrel off ace high but its beside the point. i want to cooler people and not do those sort of things and trust my gut/read i dont have a roll big enough to invite that kinda variance into my game (basically i want to change my style of play because my standard deviation is huge like omaha levels in texas holdem.... which made me realise even when im getting it in good and with edges my swings are big so the standard 20buyin rule for cash games surely cant apply to me as my risk of going broke is pretty large still ive ran 7buyins below ev the other night so im just starting to realise i need to either use a far bigger roll for the stakes i play as i messed around with pokerdope or change my style to a more nut pedalling style got for fat ev spots let their mistakes compound and let people hang themselves as huge dogs rather than loads of these marginal hands in big pots, im not even that loose im tight but i do think a ton about pot odds and implied odds on calls so i think i sensibly station or stick it in when im pretty sure im ahead majority of time or bluff raise cause they can rarely have good hand that justifies whatever it is their doing, and my bluffs are very polarised too.

So yh im wondering if jqsuited kqsuited j10suited make kinda bad calls to 3bets i know they make nut straights but they also more often hit weak top pairs against a typical 3bet range that when your getting action can have you dominated and two pair isnt first pump get it in either.
so wondering if better to just fold these and call with more the middling ones as your hands arent dominated postflop as often so you can more comfortably bluff catch call down raise good combo draws etc
got both ideas below as to range to call which do you believe is better?... better to avoid the reverse implied odds or still just keep em in.

would love any help or ideas and sorry if the post is too long and wordy. just trying to think about what hands realise their equity better in 3bet pots while still being able to play a aggressive game without what i think is too much weak pot control lines in 3bet pots (as exploitable all strategies are but get my point) and without silly spew as i know its not just about raw equity deep.
my thought on the big connectors though is that longterm its gotta just be breakeven playing them in 3bet pots and with the rake just means their marginal losing plays even when your winning the hands. whereas the middling connectors suffer less from that issue your either folding post or playing accordingly given your opposition their range their frequencies board textures etc.
mean i dont even like playing aj much to 3bets suited or not particularly oop as you can never play it particularly strongly your just bluff catching again so think its break even really i dont wanna play break even defensive style of play in 3bet pots as a caller i want to have strong mathematical edges long term in them and turn them into proper winning spots that punish over aggressive play from regulars in them so any help thoughts for that is appreciated, as the last session of being heavy favourite turn c/r all in and getting rivered so much crushed my soul to be honest and made me realise i need to change my strategy and style of play as i dont want to play with a really big roll for microstakes so i need to minimise the swings and ge them away from omaha levels otherwise i may aswell just go play that ha.

https://imgur.com/a/SAztx5a

Last edited by HappyTilt; 10-20-2018 at 08:40 PM.
Range Construction Question For Calling 3bets Quote
10-21-2018 , 02:42 PM
Note that if villain's 3-bet size is "pot", you only need to win a third of the time to make calling better than folding. When you flat, it should be with the expectation that you'll still lose the hand the majority of the time. You just need to win it often enough to break even based on the pot odds. Being in position is very favourable, since you can realize your equity better. If you're OOP, it's much harder, so you shouldn't defend so often with calls.

If you're in position when you're faced with a 3-bet, and can close the action (e.g. BTN vs SB), you can more or less call with any pair and any suited connector 65s+, any suited ace, any two suited Broadways (like KTs, or JTs).
In some positions, you won't have all those hands in your range. e.g. If you open UTG and get 3-bet by the SB, you don't have worry about calling with 22 or 76s, because those aren't in your range to begin with.

P.S. If your opponent is super-nitty, and only 3-bets QQ+/AK, you can fold almost your entire range. Against that QQ+/AK range, it's only pairs and AK that have 33% equity, and villain will be c-betting and barreling so often that you'll get get taken to value-town if you try defending with Broadways and SCs.
Range Construction Question For Calling 3bets Quote
10-21-2018 , 07:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtyMcFly
Note that if villain's 3-bet size is "pot", you only need to win a third of the time to make calling better than folding. When you flat, it should be with the expectation that you'll still lose the hand the majority of the time. You just need to win it often enough to break even based on the pot odds. Being in position is very favourable, since you can realize your equity better. If you're OOP, it's much harder, so you shouldn't defend so often with calls.

If you're in position when you're faced with a 3-bet, and can close the action (e.g. BTN vs SB), you can more or less call with any pair and any suited connector 65s+, any suited ace, any two suited Broadways (like KTs, or JTs).
In some positions, you won't have all those hands in your range. e.g. If you open UTG and get 3-bet by the SB, you don't have worry about calling with 22 or 76s, because those aren't in your range to begin with.

P.S. If your opponent is super-nitty, and only 3-bets QQ+/AK, you can fold almost your entire range. Against that QQ+/AK range, it's only pairs and AK that have 33% equity, and villain will be c-betting and barreling so often that you'll get get taken to value-town if you try defending with Broadways and SCs.
cheers dude
Range Construction Question For Calling 3bets Quote

      
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