Are you a new or beginning player?

What would you like to know more about?
What are you having trouble with?
What subjects are hard to find information on?

If I get some interesting replies I'll write about them!

Beginning player here. Anything would be great. If I had to chose something.... Pot odds! Always difficult for me. It may just come down to making more time studying it. But just when I think I got the hang of it I fail miserably. Online the play is quicker so that makes it difficult or if I'm at the table I just go blank with all the numbers swirling around.

Thanks.

There was a thread about pot-odds a few days ago, check my reply there!
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/3...-odds-1772193/

Seems like few takers, so I have one! Playing the player.

Hmm anything specific?
Poker is pretty much playing the player, unless you like GTO

Maybe how much time you need with a player before you can develop accurate reads or accurately categorize him/her.

Hmm very interesting, something I definitely need more work on myself.

I guess it really depends on the player.
Some people, especially in live games, you have figured out after just one or two hands.
Some even before the game starts.

Other times it takes a while before you see one of their hands go to showdown and realize what kind of crap they might've been pulling.

Online it probably takes quite a few more hands.
If you're paying attention you should have some idea after around 10-20 hands.

The advantage online is that you can always see the other player's hands when it goes to showdown. (In the hand history, at least on Stars)

Might think about this some more and try to write some more about it.

I wanna read about Muti-way river bluffs with air in live mtt's.

Gonna be a short read: Don't do it.

Hi Yeodan. It's been a week or so since I started studying the forum, hoping this would help me decide if it is worthy playing online poker for living, if I should play online poker just to make some extra money, or not play at all...

I am not new to poker per se, though... 10-12 years ago one of my closest friends decided to pursue a poker career but finally dropped out the "dream", I'd say because he was not fully able to put all theories in practice (especially those regarding bankroll management and mentality). Being roommates at some time, I watched plays, videos, read a few books (from Doyle's to even the BelugaWhale's - which wasn't cheap at that time) all and all I was partly into online poker without being a player. I was just curious and interested about it. So, I am at least familiar with most of the concepts et al that I find here.

To cut the already long story short, I've been roaming the forum having this as a starting point:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/1...layers-638459/

But what I am reading so far is dated 10-15 years back (2005-2009/10).

What I would like to know/ read more about is if there is a connection with today's online poker reality, since the online poker went through so many changes in the last 10-15 years.

Thank you

A lot of the stuff from 10-15 years back still works.
Some things just don't change, like pot odds. They're the same now as 20 years ago and they will remain the same for the next 20 years and beyond.

One of the most important skills in poker is learning for yourself what works and what doesn't.
Against some players all the stuff from 15 years ago is going to work perfectly and be optimal play.
Against others it'll be horrible and you'll be burning money if you try some of it against them.

As far as I can tell, players have become better and are still getting better.
The worst players today are better than the worst players 15 years ago.
The best players today would destroy the best players of 15 years ago.

Live games are still insanely soft.
People are not patient enough to play correct pre-flop ranges, playing good poker is boring, so they just build further upon their pre-flop mistakes post-flop.

Online games are pretty though and you need good basics to beat them.
Regular cash tables and tournaments are probably still pretty soft.
Zoom cash tables are a LOT harder.

Online platforms where a lot of the live players are now playing are a lot softer as well.

I'm not sure how it is at higher stakes, since I haven't been there.


As to playing poker professionally, do not set that as a goal!
You have very little control over it and it takes time to figure out if poker is what you want to be doing or not.

I've asked around and the pro's I've found all took at least 2-3 years of SERIOUS studying and playing before being able to go pro.
Some had played for 10+ years before they started to take it serious.

If you'd like to go pro, first figure out if you enjoy poker.
This takes at least 4 months of playing a LOT of volume.

For live games, there's a big difference between playing for €20 at a local club or with your friends or playing for €500 at a casino with 500 people you don't know.

You have to deal with variance, huge downswings, bankroll management, your family and friends thinking you have a gambling issue, ...

You have to build the discipline to study and play, not just for a few weeks or a few months, but to actually keep doing this.
Again, 4+ months at least.
It's easy to go hard for 1-3 months, and that's where most people quit, because it is hard and they give up.


There are other ways, easier ways, to make more money than by playing poker.
You have to love the game to make it.

If I might add one comment to that, the stuff from a while ago which is about maths is still as sound as it ever was (but in terms of studying you should make sure you look into it enough to be able to verify the maths yourself - this aids in comprehension as well as double-checking). Stuff which is about how people play is less likely to be accurate but still may contain grains of truth (the Baluga theorem - that you should seriously consider folding one pair hands if raised on the turn - still holds true, as does the Zeebo theorem - nobody ever folds a full house - to a lesser extent). Stuff about recommended bet sizing is likely to be horrifically awful and wrong. Don't 4x pre then pot every street regardless of texture.

Thank you both Yeodan and TheDefiniteArticle for your answers.

To put them in bullets:

-poker math is poker math, same as it ever was, it is not enough to just get a grasp of them, someone has to fully understand them to apply on the play,

-most theoretical concepts about the play still stand preflop, some of them need adjustments relevant to each specific situation regarding the level of play/ opponents, especially postflop (the game is more difficult),

-all decisions about poker should be made after a lot of studying and a lot of play.

Hope I got them right.

Thanks a lot.

Hmm, I wouldn't say you need to fully understand the math, you just need to understand how to apply it to your game.

Pot odds for example are fairly easy to learn and understand and then apply.
But some people just can't wrap their heads around math.

If you just learn the pot odds by hard, you won't need to understand the math.
You can still apply pot odds without having to do any calculations or knowing any formulas.

You do need to understand why you're using pot odds and when they do and don't apply.

Pot odds are probably simple enough for anyone to understand with some effort.
They may even take a lot of effort for some.

But there are other calculations out there that are too complicated for a lot of people.
You'd still want to study them, but there's no need to completely understand the math, you just need to take the parts out of it that are useful to you and learn those.
Knowing the exact math or being able to do it is not required.


There are lot of theoretical concepts that don't apply anymore, mostly in online games.
It just all really depends on the type of opponent you're facing.
Poker theory is often based on the cards too much.
While your opponent is a much more important factor imo.

A simple example.
Anyone would tell you open-shoving JJ is horrible when 100bb deep.
But if you have a player behind you that calls 100% of the time pre-flop no matter what.
Then open-shoving JJ becomes a very good play. While against better opponents, it would indeed be a very poor play.

My advice would be to learn how to adjust to opponents, rather than study optimal theory, although they build on each other, so both are useful.


Poker skill comes with experience from actually playing poker.
Studying doesn't do much by itself.
It's only when you study and then learn to apply it while playing, that you'll improve.

Thanks for spending time doing this...

Advice on best way to rise through the micros , and how you know you are ready for the next BB up would be interesting.

Total Beginner

everything

general tipps

I don't play online much, so can't really say.
My number #1 tip would be, keep going, don't give up, keep playing, you will get there eventually as long as you keep going.