Hi guys,

I tried out the pokersnowie preflop adviser. It tells what to do vs a 3bet, but where do i get the information which hands I should call a shove with (given I 4bet).

One of the options is "Facing a 4-bet after my 3-bet". That will show you which hands to 5-bet, call, or fold.

Yeah, but there is difference between being the 3bettor and facing a 4bet and facing a shove as the 4-bettor.

For example:

Hero in EP, villain in MP 3bets. Now the preflopadviser gives the advise to 4bet with for example AKs and QQ and 85% JJ. But what should I do with alle these hands vs an all-in?

Don't 4-bet JJ/QQ/AKs if you plan to fold to a 100bb 5-bet jam. You've got the right odds to call.
To put it another way, before you 4-bet, you should already know what you're going to do if you get jammed on. Your 4-bet range should be polarized between "value hands" that play for stacks, and "bluffs" that will fold to a jam.
FWIW, with JJ UTG vs an MP 3-bet, I think calling is better than 4-betting. AKo is the trickiest one. 4-betting seems good, but it might be a fold to the jam (especially in low stakes games). You have to look at the exact pot odds and calculate your equity vs villain's likely range. e.g. Vs QQ+/AK, AKs has slightly more equity than QQ, and both have more equity than AKo.

P.S. I've just had a look at the online preflop advisor, and it actually has a bug. For some reason it won't let you pick UTG as the position for 4-betting. I hadn't noticed that before. :/

It works fine on my computer and gives:



But yeah it lacks the info what I should call the jam with.


If i look at it from the perspective of MP, "facing a 4 bet after I 3bet". It gives:



So it should be possible to calculate the call range based on pot ot odds but I wonder if this is really unexploitable and therefore the correct calling range.

Snowie uses uncommon sizes (including pot-sized 4-bets and min 5bets), so if UTG 4-bets vs MP, UTG's range is mostly QQ+/AK, as per your first screen grab. Against that range, it thinks MP should only 5-bet aces and occasionally AKs and QQ as per your second screengrab. Clearly, nothing except aces does well against a range that is going to be AA almost 80% of the time. The thing is, (the full version of) Snowie actually suggests that MP's 5-bet should be a min-5bet and not a shove, and it's actually UTG that shoves with a 6-bet (with QQ+/AK).
If MP 5-bet jams, he can go wider than the range shown in your second pic, but it's still not profitable for UTG to call with AKo. At 100NL with Snowie's sizes, UTG should only call off QQ+, AKs if MP 5-bet jams. MP will have QQ+/AKs so often, that you should fold AKo even if you've put about 26bb in the middle.
If you've used other sizes, you can specify some ranges and just do the EV math yourself. e.g. If if villain jams 100bb when you've invested 26bb, then calling 74bb would make the final pot 201.5bb (inc blinds, not not factoring rake) and the amount of equity you'd need to break even would be 74/201.5 = 36.7%. AKo has almost 39% vs QQ+/AK, but the rake steals about 5% of your equity. If your 4-bet was bigger, like 30bb, then you'll have better calling odds.

I hope I can post my question here:

If we want to construct our preflop 5-betting all-in range for i.e. an IP raise vs. an UTG opener, which we assume having a 4-bet/calling range of [QQ+, AK], how do we proceed correctly?

If we do it like proposed in the donkr-acticles we start with finding the hands that have 50%+ equity vs. total 4-bet/calling range (QQ+, AK) and then start adding "bluffs"/hands until the weakest hands of the 4-bet/calling range (QQ, AKo) are breaking even (reach the required equity target of i.e. 36,7%).

-> conclusion: our constructed 5-betting all-in range needs to be conform with the RE target vs. the weakest hands of 4-bet/calling range

Is this the right approach? How about range vs. range equity considerations? Are there any other methods for constructing such all-in ranges?

I hope to find an answer for my questions here! Thanks in advance.

The donkr articles are pretty good on 3b/4b/5b wars, but bear in mind that some/many players won't always 4-bet queens or AK, or have any 4-bet bluffs, so it's suicidal to include any bluffs in a 5-bet range against such players. You should also be flatting 4-bets sometimes (with hands like AK, AQs, QQ-TT, or even KK), both in position and OOP if villain's 4-bet is small. A lot of players will 4-bet jam too, so you don't even get a chance to 5-bet. Positional ranges vary a lot too. A raising war between UTG and MP is going to feature much stronger ranges than BTN vs SB.

All that said, suited wheel aces (e.g. A5s) tend to be the best 5-bet bluffing (all in) hands, since the blocker reduces the chance villain has aces, and you still have around 33% equity if villain snap-calls with kings.

It all comes down to range vs range equity and fold equity, but it's kind of impossible to create "GTO" pre-flop ranges, because you have no control over how villain will play his range. (e.g. If he only 4-bets aces - or sometimes traps by just calling with the nuts when you 3-bet - you'll end up with egg on your face if you think he'll have a "balanced" 4-bet range).