Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Beginners Questions Poker beginner? Ask your (possibly) naive question here and our community will attempt to help you.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-18-2019, 05:38 PM   #1
Poker Hat
newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 42
Please explain this to me

To improve, I've been reading about ranges. While I'm "OK" and pinning down someones cards, it still needs work.

I found this on some poker website and it's just not sinking in. It has to do with pre-flop logic, but I don't get it.

Quote:
The more we know about our opponent, the more exact we can determine their range. A fairly tight player’s range for a first position raise would then possibly look like this.
AA–99; AKs–ATs; AKo–ATo

If we’re dealing with a looser player, the range would rather look like this.
AA–55; AKs–ATs; AKo–ATo; T9s; 98s; 87s

Let’s see how a hand like 2-2 plays against the tighter of the two ranges above. It’s a hand that has almost 40% equity and is certainly worth playing out of the blinds.

If we’re in the big blind, the opponent raises to 3bb and it’s folded to us, there's 4.5bb in the pot and we have to pay only 2bb to play.

We’re getting pot odds of 4.5-2 or 2.25 to 1, which means we have to win one in 3.25 times, equalling 30% equity. If the raise is lower than 3bb, our pot odds are even better.
It's the part in bold that I'm not getting. It's the opposite how I understand the relationship between pot odds and card odds.

It says that we need to win one in 3.25 times (3.25:1). The pot odds however is 2.25:1.

Why is it okay to proceed here when our pot odds are worse? Doesn't the pot odds need to be 3.25:1 or better (4.25:1)?
Poker Hat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2019, 05:45 PM   #2
madlex
Custom User Title
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,708
Re: Please explain this to me

You pay 1 to win 2.25 from the pot + your 1 for a total of 3.25. So if you win once every 3.25 times, you break even.
madlex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2019, 06:11 PM   #3
Poker Hat
newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 42
Re: Please explain this to me

Quote:
Originally Posted by madlex View Post
You pay 1 to win 2.25 from the pot + your 1 for a total of 3.25. So if you win once every 3.25 times, you break even.
I'm still not getting it. Sorry.

Let's say the blinds are 1 and 2.

SB puts out 1
BB puts out 2
UTG raises to 6 and it folds around to me in the BB

The pot is now 9 and I have to call 4. That's 2.25:1.

Where is the other 1 coming from?

Don't I break even if I win once every 2.25 times? Why 3.25?
Poker Hat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2019, 06:20 PM   #4
sixfour
should be called sevenfour
 
sixfour's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Tungsten Analysis
Posts: 63,274
Re: Please explain this to me

Let's make it simpler. I stick a dollar in front of you and flip a coin. Your chances of winning are one in what, and how much cash money do you need to bet to break even as a result?
sixfour is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2019, 06:36 PM   #5
Tuma
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,064
Re: Please explain this to me

A hero is facing a $2 bet and the pot is $8.

Hero is being laid 4-1.

Hero must win 1/5 times to breakeven....

(Case simulation.

1) -$2
2) -$2
3) -$2
4) -$2
5) +$8

Hero needs 20% equity.)
Tuma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2019, 07:02 PM   #6
Poker Hat
newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 42
Re: Please explain this to me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuma View Post
A hero is facing a $2 bet and the pot is $8.

Hero is being laid 4-1.

Hero must win 1/5 times to breakeven....

(Case simulation.

1) -$2
2) -$2
3) -$2
4) -$2
5) +$8

Hero needs 20% equity.)
Okay, perfect. That's what I needed.

The number of times I can afford to lose a pot must never exceed the pot odds by more than 1. If the pot odds are 9:1, I can lose it 9 times but must win on the 10th (On the average) to break even: 10% equity required. Got it.

You did a way better job of explaining this than the article.

So now the next question....

How do I know preflop if my hand has enough equity?
If I'm being laid 3:1 pot odds, how do I know if my hand has at least 25%?
Poker Hat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2019, 07:10 PM   #7
King Spew
Antici
 
King Spew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: pation
Posts: 11,874
Re: Please explain this to me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poker Hat View Post
How do I know preflop if my hand has enough equity?
If I'm being laid 3:1 pot odds, how do I know if my hand has at least 25%?
Download a program called Equilab...it's free
Won't take you too long to figure it out even if you choose not to read the directions

Plus in a hand for you and then:

give villain random hand
(doesn't matter what position you use for either at this point)
then calculate equity

next
two random hands
then calculate equity

next
three random hands
then calculate equity

next
four
five
six....how many players do you play with that are typically in a pot PF?

Your hand:
Try AA
Try AK
Try 78s
Try 33
Try KTo
etc


After an hour or two, you hand equities will be a bit clearer to you.
King Spew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2019, 07:18 PM   #8
Poker Hat
newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 42
Re: Please explain this to me

Quote:
Originally Posted by King Spew View Post
Download a program called Equilab...it's free
Won't take you too long to figure it out even if you choose not to read the directions

Plus in a hand for you and then:

give villain random hand
(doesn't matter what position you use for either at this point)
then calculate equity

.....After an hour or two, you hand equities will be a bit clearer to you.
I've seen those before. There's one at cards chat.

So if I'm now understanding all this correctly, I'm supposed to guess the villains range depending upon what position he's opening from. Then I look at my cards and compare it to his range to estimate my equity. Right?
Poker Hat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2019, 07:46 PM   #9
King Spew
Antici
 
King Spew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: pation
Posts: 11,874
Re: Please explain this to me

In a nutshell.

Equilab has the ability to use a Random range for villain(s) which makes it easy to start. You can also make up (and save/name) your own ranges like TAG EP (Tight Aggressive from Early Position) or LP SB (Loose Passive from the blinds)
King Spew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2019, 07:58 PM   #10
Poker Hat
newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 42
Re: Please explain this to me

Quote:
Originally Posted by King Spew View Post
In a nutshell.

Equilab has the ability to use a Random range for villain(s) which makes it easy to start. You can also make up (and save/name) your own ranges like TAG EP (Tight Aggressive from Early Position) or LP SB (Loose Passive from the blinds)
I'll check it out.

Isn't it also safe to just call when you have a starting hand that's stronger than your position?

If you're in late position and being raised from middle position, can't you just call if you have a middle or early position starting hand?
Poker Hat is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:25 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online