Here is a spot that has come up frequently for me in my past few days of playing.

Suppose we are in middle to late position and someone ahead of us raises to 3 BB. We call with a hand like KQ and everyone else folds.

The flop comes 8 3 3. And our opponent bets 2/3 the pot. What do we do here? It's unlikely he hit anything here, but what if we call and blank the turn and face more pressure?

I'm sure there are a lot of "it depends on _______" situations which is fine. I'm just trying to get some input on what our line of thinking should be here.


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The line of thinking should be: what is his range?

It depends on a lot of things, type of game, opponent tendencies, reads and stack depth. Anyway their range contain A high 2overcards, BDFDs, pairs and some spews, in general you can call OTF and revaluate OTT because you are IP have some equity and most player shut down OTT and you can win the pot by betting in good run outs.

So let's say he is playing ~20% of his hands and C-Betting a lot of the time. We're a 3 to 1 dogs against any pocket pair that hasn't made a set, but can crush him if we make our pair. 4 to 1 dog against most of his aces, but will be in good shape most of the time when we pair up. But we are ahead of a couple of K and Q combos, ahead of his suited connectors and 1 gappers, and any other trash he decides to play.

So do we just look to call against most opponents that aren't super tight? Or do we need more info on our opponent such as how often he double barrels with nothing? I assume about half of the turn cards (any unpaired card lower than an a 10) really won't change anything.


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Sounds like you have a pretty good understanding of the spot right now!!

I agree that ranging is the key here as well as style ... and that can only come from hands played and your impressions of the player. The other side of the equation is always 'what range do I think he is putting me on' as well.

Typically, cash or tournament, you should be pretty willing to call a C-bet here in this spot. You have position and K-high might be good here 'a lot' against some player's range, eh?

This is where poker is played, not just cards. And typically the aggressor will win the pot. If you aren't the type of player to fire on a checked Turn, then you probably will get run over quite often with this holding. GL

Why are we calling pre with a hand like KQ in middle/late position? Do we like flopping badly or getting valuetowned or something?

If I somehow saw a flop in this situation (in say CO v UTG at a 6-max table), I'd ask villain what he's repping on the flop. He should probably be checking his entire range on 833. Exploitatively, you could probably print money by raising his c-bet with two napkins.

EDIT: Forgive me for being sarcastic above. The point I really wanted to make is that we shouldn't be calling pre-flop with KQ. We should be calling with a range of hands that will give us fairly easy decisions on most flop textures. Since our flatting range pre-flop is going to mostly consist of hands like JJ-66, AQs, AJs, then if we face a bet on a board like 833r, we call with our pairs and boats, we probably call with the best overcards that have a BDNFD, and we fold anything that's total air (like AJs with no backdoors). Hands like KQo do so badly as calls against an EP opener, that we just fold pre.

This all comes down to range again. 'Your' range obviously doesn't include KQ flats IP against early openers. The assumption here is that you don't consider your EP opponent's range at all or that you are playing against very competent opponents where you are crediting them with very narrow ranges from EP. (Online?)

We see KQ folded plenty on the WSOP ME streams due to shallow stacks and certainly 'a lot' of what you are talking about, narrow competent opening ranges. If this were practiced in cash games the paint industry would be booming.

But to use a blanket statement that KQ matches up poorly against a deep stacked low limit live cash game I think is a bit conservative. It certainly keeps us out of jail, but I think that at most tables there are other facets of the game that can help 'overrule' and allow KQ to safely and profitably see Flops.

I'm not saying I disagree with the assessment, but at these cash games where an average session is less than 3 hours (if not smaller) and players 'need' to play 'X' amount of hands to keep themselves entertained KQ is a very playable hand from any position when facing a reasonable opening bet. GL

How many worse hands do you have?

In live 1/2 all I need is 2 cards in front of me if I get into a HU spot IP. Having something as strong as KQ would be a 'bonus' against some opponents and yet be nothing but 'blockers' against others.

If I can properly range my opponents then I have 2/3 (or more) of the deck to work with on the Flop. They only 'hit' 30% of the time within their range but they know that I play the whole deck and it goes c-bet/call on the Flop and check/bet/fold on the Turn enough times to be +EV.

Opponents typically only have 1/3 of the deck they are drawing to ... even if they have 88/99 I still have the top and bottom thirds of the deck to use against them.

Yes, I do get picked off, but I also get called down light a lot more than the average player when I do have good River hands. Remember that 88/99 guy? He calls down Turn and River on QJ646 plenty and I show AQ some and 76s some .. and 9T some. But 'dang nabbit' he's not gonna let me steal another pot. 2 wins, 1 loss .. +EV

Exploitable? Sure, come on down and it's up to me to make the adjustment when you are in only 10% of the hands I'm playing. There are days when I just know that no one is buying what I'm selling and I just need to back off.

I work on understanding the math and I certainly respect the math when it comes to long-term online success. But live 1/2 is about player reads/ranges/styles and the willingness to play some poker, not cards, and trying to take advantage of the table which ever way it's leaning that day. GL

How do you know OP is playing live?

I don't, but all I can offer is live advice .. and OP can ignore if it doesn't apply.

I want OP to look at the whole situation, not just 'it's KQ' in LP against UTG open so I must fold or raise (sometimes). 'The spot' applies to live and it should to online as well, which the HUD should make this assessment easier to make.

I've already stated that in a live setting (WSOP ME) that KQ gets minimized as Arty suggests it should. But this stems from the players 'seeing' the situation for what it is against their opponents ranges. If this is the case online then I'm glad my exposure to it is limited!

When I feel I have additional factors in my favor and can go into the hand with open eyes then KQ now becomes an acceptable holding. GL

The problem with this flop is that as the caller your range is so incredibly capped. In general you are going to have a lot of pairs, maybe even a higher percentage of the time than the preflop raiser but they are weaker. It's harder to call and then represent a strong hand because it is so unlikely you have it.

If the opponent is terrible and cbetting too much you can probably just raise any two cards and profit. If he's a nit this is the easiest fold in the world. When he is sort of balanced you can call with all your pairs and all A high before you need to resort to K high. I'd much rather call with T9s with a backdoor flush because hitting a pair isn't that valuable if your intention is to win the hand by bluffing. KQ is also not the hand you want to have against AQ/AK so I think it is one of the least playable hands here you can have.

As Kelvis pointed out KQo is one of the worst possible hands to have in this spot. It has no backdoors whatsover, and it's already losing to (if not dominated by) many of villain's bluffs. If you float the flop, what cards are you hoping to see on the turn? Are you going to call again if it's a blank, or even if you make a pair? If villain checks the turn, are you going to bluff with no draw at all? KQo is 12 combos. That's a lot of total air to be floating with, when a more optimal range contains so many better hands for calling. When Villain bets 2/3 pot, I'm already kind of sighing with TT (as I'm not keen to call three streets and get shown JJ+, so I'll be hoping villain slows down), but with KQ my fold is pretty much instant, because I'm not even gonna feel great if I bink top pair, but I definitely can't check it down and win with king high.
Except maybe against the absolute worst players with clearly exploitable leaks, I don't think KQo is a profitable flat pre, and it's a very -EV float on this flop. You're often drawing to a 3-outer at best, and the turn and river are going to be very hard to play correctly.
Also, to give Kelvis more props, T9s (with BDFD) is indeed a much better hand (and just 3 combos) to put into your floating (or bluff-raising) range. At least with that hand, you know what you're drawing to, or bluffing with. KQo is just a trouble hand. If OP has indeed been getting into spots like this "frequently", then he's been calling pre-flop too often. Offsuit Broadway hands are really bad hands to call EP raises with.

I'm sure the OP is loving this ..

As is my advice pretty much all the time .. Play POKER, not cards. Take into account all aspects of the opponents and table dynamic when making your decisions. GL

Really need to post more often on here. I'm loving all of the feedback and really appreciate the comments.

So let's sort of go away from the title itself and go pre-flop. Suppose we have KQo. Rather than calling the flop, are we looking to 3 bet and steal the pot right there (not saying this is an every time 3 bet, but rather a spot where we want to play our hand against someone doing a good amount of raising from the position we are in).

Also, does the thought process change if it's KQs? Obviously a better hand to play but should we always be 3 betting a hand like that vs an UTG or MP raise when we are in the CO or BTN? Or can we float that hand since it is suited?


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Pre-flop, I would almost always fold KQo (sometimes 3-bet it OTB vs CO or MP), but 3-bet KQs in every position. I think many players call with KQs in position, as that hand should be a profitable flat, but I don't flat much at all. On boards like this, and facing villain's big bet, KQs even with a backdoor flush draw is pretty useless. Villain is repping hands like KK/AA. How is KQs going to beat AA on 833?
If you flat pre with hands like KQs, it's partly due to what's generally called "board coverage". You want to have some combos in your range that have equity on flops like Kxx, Qxx or JTx/J9x, since those are the boards where your 88-66 have no equity and have to fold. On the low boards like 874, 955, your pocket pairs are doing fine (you often have a set or a pair+gutshot), but your overcards are junk.

This 'board coverage' concept is partly why you don't want/need KQo in your range. It's just twelve combos of fairly useless trash. Why call with KQo pre, when 12 better combos would be KQs, QJs, JTs, T9s, giving you coverage (and more playability/equity) on many more flops?