I hear that since Isuldur made it popular there is a good amount of overbetting that occurs in tournament poker these days. My questions, as someone who hasn't experienced this a lot being a cash game player, are as follows.

First question is, how often do you see this happen?
Is this normally something done preflop, flop, turn, or river?
How have you handled this situation?


Thanks in advance.

OPP

Interesting first post for a 'newbie'? Isuldur is pretty 'old' by today's standards ... Welcome.

You should've seen plenty of polarizing over-bets in cash play prior to it moving it's way to the tournament scene. IMO it goes to when we started 'ranging' Players more than in the past. If you put a Player on a range of holdings and that range doesn't connect to the Board then you can put them to the test with a pot+ bet regardless of your own holdings. It's basically a game of chicken ...

How often? Depends on the styles of play and any history between opponents. The looser you play/image the more often you can use the play IMO.

When? Probably most effective on Turn or River as a means of fold-equity or an attempt to hide massive edges via the non-standard value sizing.

How to handle? Well, now you have to range the V and the spot to try and figure out how often they might do this as a bluff for the chips you're risking.

I will use the over-bet to get folds from some Players and calls from others. The trick is to make them look the same. I will rarely use them without some other sort of read. Like if you 'know' an opponent is going to fold a River anyway, then go ahead and over-bet it to show the table what you are capable of ... plant the seed.

People are so value aware these days that doing something non-standard can throw them off their 'programmed' thinking, which may lead them to do the opposite of what they might have if a Player had made a standard bet size.

Also, if you've been watching tournament streams (and ANeeme) the 'thing' right now is down-betting your c-bets and River value bets. Again, these are used to generate both calls and folds while generating some pot/stack control.

I recently got a guy to fold for $45 on a River when his flush missed. The pot was well over $400 but I purposely didn't go all in on the Turn due to history with this opponent ... I was on the same flush draw (oops) but with lower cards.

These are all cases of trying to throw either really easy or really hard decisions at your opponents, depending on the situation. Which includes over and under betting the pot. GL

In tournies it mostly occurs pre-flop, when you're jamming up to 20bb to win about 2bb. Stacks are relatively short in tournies, but you might see some overbets on the turn and river, usually as an all in bet.
Overbets are much more common in cashgames, as you're generally 100bb+ deep, and you can't get all in (in a single-reaised pot) by just potting it 3 times.

As for the strategy of what to do when faced by an overbet, that's pretty simple: You fold a lot. Unless you're playing high stakes, overbets are going to be heavily weighted towards the nuts, and you'll quickly go busto if you try to hero-call them with bluffcatchers.

answer20, that was an awesome answer. So, I'm not really new to the game, just some of the concepts, like overbetting, blockers, GTO and what you called shadowing? What is shadowing?

ArtyMcFLy, about the only "overbetting" I've seen in cash games in the insta shove from the newer players. The 2x or 3x pot bets are very rare. I play 1 2 anad 1 3 mostly, so maybe that's a thing at higher levels, or at other casinos.

Yep, not common in the lowest limit live games but has made its ways all the way down to the micro stakes online by now.

Shadowing? .... I do a lot of editing, but I don't really know where I would've put that word.

Come on up to the Midwest. Plenty of $80-150 PF over-shoves by the pit Players who are looking for that same 'gambly' feeling at the poker table. Limp, open for $11, two callers ... shove for $88 with Q9o, show. Next time it's QQ!! Fun game. GL

Not knowing about shadow ranges, are you serious? are you guys even trying to get good at poker?
There's a great thread about them in the theory section.

Yeah, not sure where I saw that either. I must have been reading other posts, or maybe even coming up with that term in my mind thinking about your post.

Example, you have a player that is always calling you, regardless of bet or holding. It's like they're shadowing you. Sometimes its advantageous to have someone play at you, but other times it is quite unnerving.