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Old 12-05-2017, 05:35 PM   #1
MuckItAll
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Outs & Hand Odds Memorization Questions

When first starting out, to make things simpler at the tables so that I can also take other things into consideration in the alloted time, should I first start out memorizing my hand odds exactly, or just round them for ease. And if I should round them, should I use the conventional technique of rounding anything that's X.5 or greater up, or else round the number down (to get the final ""X:1"" format)? Or, should I use another number for the rounding of hand odds (X.1, X.2, X.3, X.4, X.5, X.6, X.7, X.8, or X.9)?
My main concern is that I would like to know if rounding is that detrimental to a player that's just starting out... but, I also do not want to make too huge of a mistake of calling too much or folding too much each time. I imagine that memorizing the exact hand odds is the best way, but what is the conventional way to do it? I guess I'm looking for a way too fudge things that's a little more precise than the rule of 2 & 4 (although I would still use the rule of 4 for allins on the flop, since there's still two cards to come & I'm guaranteed to see no more betting). I think the answer is somewhere online because I looked it up about 5 or 6 years ago, but I cannot seem to track it down by doing a Google search or searching twoplustwo.com or flopturnriver.com. When I get the chart sorted out, I will probably either use it as PC wallpaper or print it out and have it somewhere handy for online play; & then eventually, after I play enough hands again I will remember the specific hand odds column. But for now, I was just going to use approximations if doing that is not too harmful, that way I can make decisions quicker on the fly.

... Three specific scenarios that concern me are when I have either 4 (10.75:1 hand odds), 9 (4.22:1 hand odds), or 13 (2.62:1 hand odds) outs. Could I just consider those three situations as having: 11:1, 5:1, and 3:1 hand odds? Or, should I maybe round the hand odds for the 9 out hand down (and call it an even 4:1, instead of 5:1)?


HTML Code:
	    Flop to Turn	    Turn to River	    Flop to River
Outs	%	Odds	~Odds	%	Odds	~Odds	%	Odds	~Odds
20	42.60%	1.35:1	2:1	43.50%	1.30:1	2:1	67.50%	0.48:1	1:1
19	40.40%	1.47:1	2:1	41.30%	1.42:1	2:1	65.00%	0.54:1	1:1
18	38.30%	1.61:1	2:1	39.10%	1.56:1	2:1	62.40%	0.60:1	1:1
17	36.20%	1.77:1	2:1	37.00%	1.71:1	2:1	59.80%	0.67:1	1:1
16	34.00%	1.94:1	2:1	34.80%	1.88:1	2:1	57.00%	0.75:1	1:1
15	31.90%	2.13:1	3:1	32.60%	2.07:1	3:1	54.10%	0.85:1	1:1
14	29.80%	2.36:1	3:1	30.40%	2.29:1	3:1	51.20%	0.95:1	1:1
13	27.70%	2.62:1	3:1	28.30%	2.54:1	3:1	48.10%	1.08:1	2:1
12	25.50%	2.92:1	3:1	26.10%	2.83:1	3:1	45.00%	1.22:1	2:1
11	23.40%	3.27:1	4:1	23.90%	3.18:1	4:1	41.70%	1.40:1	2:1
10	21.30%	3.70:1	4:1	21.70%	3.60:1	4:1	38.40%	1.60:1	2:1
9	19.10%	4.22:1	5:1	19.60%	4.11:1	5:1	35.00%	1.86:1	2:1
8	17.00%	4.88:1	5:1	17.40%	4.75:1	5:1	31.50%	2.17:1	3:1
7	14.90%	5.71:1	6:1	15.20%	5.57:1	6:1	27.80%	2.60:1	3:1
6	12.80%	6.83:1	7:1	13.00%	6.67:1	7:1	24.10%	3.15:1	4:1
5	10.60%	8.40:1	9:1	10.90%	8.20:1	9:1	20.30%	3.93:1	4:1
4	8.50%	10.75:1	11:1	8.70%	10.50:1	11:1	16.50%	5.06:1	6:1
3	6.40%	14.67:1	15:1	6.50%	14.33:1	15:1	12.50%	7.00:1	7:1
2	4.30%	22.50:1	23:1	4.30%	22.00:1	22:1	8.40%	10.90:1	11:1
1	2.10%	46.00:1	46:1	2.20%	45.00:1	45:1	4.30%	22.26:1	23:1
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Old 12-05-2017, 06:57 PM   #2
otatop
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Re: Outs & Hand Odds Memorization Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by MuckItAll View Post
But for now, I was just going to use approximations if doing that is not too harmful, that way I can make decisions quicker on the fly.
This is the best method, imo, just because you're always going to be guessing somewhat so there's no real difference in knowing you have a 20% chance of something vs a 23.5% chance of it. The easiest way is to get very familiar with common scenarios like you laid out and go from there.
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Old 12-06-2017, 10:14 AM   #3
answer20
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Re: Outs & Hand Odds Memorization Questions

So you're saying that I only have to worry about you calling my 'pot' sized bets when you have 16 outs or more? Wonderful ... where do you play? (Obviously if you think you are ahead you are going to call as well.)

The point is that, yes, don't waste time with decimals in these decisions. If you are fretting over this when it's 'that' close, then you should spend more time establishing opponent ranges and trying to determine if all your outs are even 'good' or 'shared' with your opponents.

Remember that with the rule of 4 it's assumed you are going to see both cards for that one price!

You should always consider that unless a player is all-in there should be a sprinkle of Implied Odds in there as well. GL
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