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Old 05-30-2008, 07:12 PM   #26
MoonOrb
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Re: ***** Official Dumb Questions Thread ****

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Originally Posted by Dr T View Post

Does the term "lucker" have a specific meaning?
Sure that word isn't supposed to start with an F?

And, no, I don't see why that hand makes you a lucker. You were ahead the whole time. People say all kinds of stupid stuff in chat. It's probably -EV to respond to it/get irritated by it.
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Old 05-30-2008, 07:57 PM   #27
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Re: ***** Official Dumb Questions Thread ****

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Originally Posted by marchron View Post
We're dorks in minbet.
That's what I get for posting when I'm supposed to be on holiday...
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Old 05-31-2008, 02:01 AM   #28
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Re: ***** Official Dumb Questions Thread ****

Is there a quick and easy way to estimate the likelihood that you are the underdog, and by how much, on any hand? I'm reading Harrington on Hold'em, and he says stuff like "Your AKo is a slight underdog if you read your opposition as holding TT" without explaining how he knows that AKo is an underdog to pair tens. A lot of the time he'll even say by how much one hand is the underdog -- "If you hold Ax suited and two of your suit fall, you're a 4-to-1 underdog to someone holding AA" (pulled those hands out at random since I don't have the book handy to get a real quote out of it.) But nowhere in the book has he said how he's figuring this. Is this just memorization, like learning that you fill a four-flush about 20% of the time? Or is it an on-the-fly calculation, like estimating your chances to improve your hand by multiplying your outs by two?

If it's the first case, is there a good table around I can memorize for the most likely situations? (AK versus middle pair, AA versus a four-straight draw...) If it's the second, how is the on-the-fly calculation made? There's a handy calculator at www.twodimes.net (although it's kind of finicky to use) but I can't be running off to that site and entering in my hand every time I have a hard call to make.
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Old 05-31-2008, 02:38 AM   #29
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Re: ***** Official Dumb Questions Thread ****

It's purely probability.

Download poker stove - www.pokerstove.com and plug in random hands and boards.

You'll just have to learn the odds of various situations. i.e. pair + Flush draw vs. bigger pair on the flop is ~50% to win.
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Old 05-31-2008, 09:06 AM   #30
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Re: ***** Official Dumb Questions Thread ****

In poker tracker what is the significance of the stat V$PIP or something like that, i see that it is something about money voluntarily put in the pot, i dont understand what this would help?

is the stat BB100 the amount of big blinds a player wins on average after playing 100 hands? and then there is the similiar BBpt100 stat?

Thanks guys you doing a great job
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Old 05-31-2008, 10:44 AM   #31
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Re: ***** Official Dumb Questions Thread ****

VPIP means that when the player has the choice (i.e. not in the BB), they play this % of their hands.

bb/100 = how many big blinds a player has won or loss on average per 100 hands played.
ptbb/100 = how many big bets a player has won or loss per 100 hands.

1 ptbb = 1 big bet = 2 bb, it's a limit measurement, for when the bets double on the turn and river.
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Old 05-31-2008, 11:33 AM   #32
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Re: ***** Official Dumb Questions Thread ****

ahh ok i see thanks, so just to confirm am i correct in thinking that ptbb/100 should just be a factor of bb/100?

Another question re: poker tracker and poker ace hud, how does one actually use the stats collected while playing? How much can the stats be used against a player. During a ring game? Also how does it help knowing the flop aggression factor and turn aggression factor?

This is probably a very silly question and in essence im asking how to use a stats at the table tracking program, but the answer is not immediately obvious to me.

Thanks a lot
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Old 05-31-2008, 12:03 PM   #33
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Re: ***** Official Dumb Questions Thread ****

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Originally Posted by Goldi View Post
ahh ok i see thanks, so just to confirm am i correct in thinking that ptbb/100 should just be a factor of bb/100?
Yes, ptbb/100 = 2 * bb/100 (since ptbb = 2 * bb)

Quote:
Another question re: poker tracker and poker ace hud, how does one actually use the stats collected while playing? How much can the stats be used against a player. During a ring game? Also how does it help knowing the flop aggression factor and turn aggression factor?
These two posts should get you started in using the PT stats etc:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...d.php?t=165898

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/39/small-stakes-pl-nl/how-use-poker-tracker-111/
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Old 05-31-2008, 01:26 PM   #34
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Re: ***** Official Dumb Questions Thread ****

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Originally Posted by MoonOrb View Post
... no, I don't see why that hand makes you a lucker. You were ahead the whole time. People say all kinds of stupid stuff in chat. It's probably -EV to respond to it/get irritated by it.
It didn't actually irritate me; I was just mildly surprised by it, since it made me doubt my understanding of the word. But anyway, your reply has reassured me that I understand the term perfectly well, and that my opponent was just spouting off in response to a loss. Cheers!
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Old 06-01-2008, 02:10 AM   #35
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Re: ***** Official Dumb Questions Thread ****

1) What does "nit" mean.
I see people call each other that all the time, but what are the traits of being a nit??

2) "strats in bbv"-?????

3) How is CALLING preflop with pocket pairs exploitable?? I saw someone post this, but I don't understand.

4) Also when everything one does is exploitable?? Some guy was saying this about another?? In the context of poker is what I don't get.

5) Checking in the dark?? When this happens, what position can do this and what does it mean,effect the rest of the table, and why do the other players don't like when someone does this?


Hey, I like this format, this is an easy way to get answers on exactly what I'm working on, thanks guys.
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Old 06-01-2008, 02:32 AM   #36
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Re: ***** Official Dumb Questions Thread ****

Hello,

1) how does the tournament selector work on sharkscope? does it find the easiest tournament(s) that are currently registering?

2) is it legal to use this on pokerstars?

Thanks
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Old 06-01-2008, 11:24 AM   #37
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Re: ***** Official Dumb Questions Thread ****

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedAlert View Post
1) What does "nit" mean.
I see people call each other that all the time, but what are the traits of being a nit??
An overly tight player.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RedAlert View Post
2) "strats in bbv"-?????
strat = strategy
bbv = Brags Beats and Variance forum https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/54/poker-beats-brags-variance/

It is prob unwise to post strat in bbv, that's not what people go there for.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RedAlert View Post
3) How is CALLING preflop with pocket pairs exploitable?? I saw someone post this, but I don't understand.
It is exploitable if low pps are the only thing you cc with, and you only continue when you hit a set; it makes you very predictable and if someone notices this they will stop paying you off. tbh I wouldn't worry about this at low limits, most people aren't paying that much attention.
Also, don't automatically believe everything you read on here, sometimes people do post advice which is incorrect, believe it or not!


Quote:
Originally Posted by RedAlert View Post
4) Also when everything one does is exploitable?? Some guy was saying this about another?? In the context of poker is what I don't get.
An exploitable strategy if one which can be taken advantage of so that you can easily take the person's monies. eg. if your opponent always folds to a c/r when they don't have the nuts, they are using an exploitable strategy - check raise them lots!
The quote you mentioned sounds like one guy is just using it to insult the other's play.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RedAlert View Post
5) Checking in the dark?? When this happens, what position can do this and what does it mean,effect the rest of the table, and why do the other players don't like when someone does this?
Checking "in the dark" is checking on the next street's action before having seen the relevant card(s). You can obviously only do this if you are first to act on the next street, or if the person before you in the action has already checked dark. Also it's only possible in live games (duh).
imo there is zero point in checking dark ever, Phil Hellmuth does it at like every opportunity possibly to confuse opponents/disguise his hand/induce a bet, but really all he is doing is taking one of his options away on that street. There is no reason for anyone to get annoyed at their opponent doing this, because it is a bad play for them to make a decision before gaining the maximum amount of information (looking at the next card). If you aren't in the hand, it is kinda annoying and a bit of a cry for attention imo.



Quote:
Originally Posted by pcvandelay View Post
Hello,

1) how does the tournament selector work on sharkscope? does it find the easiest tournament(s) that are currently registering?

2) is it legal to use this on pokerstars?

Thanks
I don't have a sharkscope subscription, but it is definitely fine to use. DN even said he uses it to check out 5k hu sng opponents.
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Old 06-01-2008, 01:33 PM   #38
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Re: ***** Official Dumb Questions Thread ****

MAn did that hit the spot, Big D thanks for the full answers...good stuff man.

Why this thread is needed, because there really is no other place to asking such seemingly stupid questions about 'whats a nit'.

Thanks guys !!!!!!!!
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Old 06-01-2008, 04:36 PM   #39
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Re: ***** Official Dumb Questions Thread ****

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedAlert View Post
1) What does "nit" mean.
I see people call each other that all the time, but what are the traits of being a nit??
Section 15.13)

Beginners Forum Frequently Asked Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by pcvandelay View Post
2) is it legal to use this on pokerstars?
Stars Prohibited Online Poker Software FAQ

Sharkscope is currently on Stars' prohibited software list. However, it is listed as pending and I haven't heard of Stars giving anyone problems about it. However, use at own risk and don't be too shocked in one day Stars sends out a bunch of warning emails to stop using it.
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Old 06-02-2008, 11:04 PM   #40
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Re: ***** Official Dumb Questions Thread ****

What is an HUD and what do people use it for?
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Old 06-02-2008, 11:22 PM   #41
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Re: ***** Official Dumb Questions Thread ****

It's a "heads up display". You use it to display the other players at the table's statistics. That's useful because it gives you a clue to what their bets mean.
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Old 06-03-2008, 01:00 AM   #42
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Re: ***** Official Dumb Questions Thread ****

Like statistics in baseball - A pitcher will throw different pitches depending on if a batter is a slugger, hits for percentage, etc.
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Old 06-03-2008, 01:47 AM   #43
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Re: ***** Official Dumb Questions Thread ****

Here's a weird little question that came up during a $5 SnG today. I thought I knew the answer to this but realized I wasn't positive, so I decided to ask here:

One of the other players was moaning that he'd lost 4 heads-up AA and something like 8 heads-up KK hands. (I'm assuming he meant ones he bet into pre-flop, not post.) I said, "Well, in a full game the chance of AA winning is about 60%, so that's bad luck but not atrociously bad luck." (Keeping in mind he might have been making that crap up trying to get us to pay off his high cards more often -- who knows...)

He then got all in my face about how the "Heads up percentage for AA was 80-90%". I said "I know that, but you're not heads up -- this is a full 9-player game." He said (in terrible English) "If it's just you and one other person after the flop it's heads up!"

Now, my understanding was that if there are 9 hands dealt out, the chances that you will wind up with a strong one opposing you after the flop are greatly increased, resulting in the lower win rate. Whereas, if only two hands are dealt and one is AA, the other hand is generally going to be easily-beaten crap. So I was of the opinion that this accounted for the high win rate for AA in "heads up".

So the question is: Is it "heads up" only when you START with two players, or if you cut 9 hands down to 2, does that count as heads up?

(Incidentally, I wandered over to Wizard of Odds and it said that in an 8 person game AA in the hole only had a 39% chance of winning, which is 21% worse than the other figure I had in my head -- which I don't recall the source for, sadly.)

The guy was really rude and obnoxious about it, so I turned off his chat and took great pleasure in knocking his ass out of the tournament below the money. Took second -- almost managed to overcome the winner's large chip advantage but luck bailed on me finally

So what *IS* the correct way to figure odds to win with AA in the hole? And is it dependent on the number of people dealt into the hand, or only on the number playing after the flop?
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Old 06-03-2008, 02:26 AM   #44
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Re: ***** Official Dumb Questions Thread ****

Against a random hand, AA is an 85% favorite:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 85.204% 84.93% 00.27% 1781508418 5701156.00 { AcAd }
Hand 1: 14.796% 14.52% 00.27% 304661670 5701156.00 { random }

Against 8 other random hands, AA is 34%

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 34.691% 34.47% 00.22% 382166 2417.61 { AcAd }
Hand 1: 08.165% 07.42% 00.75% 82211 8302.28 { random }
Hand 2: 08.198% 07.43% 00.76% 82424 8459.19 { random }
Hand 3: 08.193% 07.43% 00.76% 82361 8461.28 { random }
Hand 4: 08.159% 07.40% 00.76% 82059 8395.69 { random }
Hand 5: 08.150% 07.39% 00.76% 81888 8461.11 { random }
Hand 6: 08.159% 07.41% 00.75% 82092 8362.44 { random }
Hand 7: 08.139% 07.38% 00.76% 81785 8447.94 { random }
Hand 8: 08.146% 07.38% 00.76% 81850 8456.44 { random }


This is all in pre-flop.

Once there's a flop, this changes completely and if you get it all-in on a flop (or later) you obviously have a much better chance of losing because players are not folding hands that beat you (sets) but are folding hands that don't hit the flop.

However, for practical purposes, this is nearly useless information since people don't usually play random hands. If you push all-in and somebody calls, it is virtually never a random hand. There are times when it is - A button steal from a short stack with any-two-cards, or when somebody is already all-in from the blinds/antes. But those are no-brainers if you have a hand like AA anyway. And how often do all 9 players at a table go all-in except in play money?

AA is 82% against KK or a smaller pair.

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 82.637% 82.36% 00.27% 1410336 4654.00 { AcAd }
Hand 1: 17.363% 17.09% 00.27% 292660 4654.00 { KcKd }

Last edited by Cry Me A River; 06-03-2008 at 02:54 AM.
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Old 06-03-2008, 02:29 AM   #45
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Re: ***** Official Dumb Questions Thread ****

I think he's right. Against any hand, heads up, AA is no worse than about 77% to win. So even if you're at a full table and only the "best" hand at the table ends up facing AA, it's still almost 80% to lose and often worse.

Maybe he was a jerk and his percentages were slightly off, but I think he had the best of the argument.

Download pokerstove and that'll help you to try some of these scenarios out.
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Old 06-03-2008, 03:07 AM   #46
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Re: ***** Official Dumb Questions Thread ****

So is it common to use an hud?

How does it work? Are you saying that if I play a table right now it will show their statistics? Where will it show it? I don't understand how this looks like.

Also, what are all these calculations people keep doing here? I think its ev calculations. What is that and how do I do it?
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Old 06-03-2008, 03:28 AM   #47
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Re: ***** Official Dumb Questions Thread ****

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maytree View Post
Here's a weird little question that came up during a $5 SnG today. I thought I knew the answer to this but realized I wasn't positive, so I decided to ask here:

One of the other players was moaning that he'd lost 4 heads-up AA and something like 8 heads-up KK hands. (I'm assuming he meant ones he bet into pre-flop, not post.) I said, "Well, in a full game the chance of AA winning is about 60%, so that's bad luck but not atrociously bad luck." (Keeping in mind he might have been making that crap up trying to get us to pay off his high cards more often -- who knows...)

He then got all in my face about how the "Heads up percentage for AA was 80-90%". I said "I know that, but you're not heads up -- this is a full 9-player game." He said (in terrible English) "If it's just you and one other person after the flop it's heads up!"

Now, my understanding was that if there are 9 hands dealt out, the chances that you will wind up with a strong one opposing you after the flop are greatly increased, resulting in the lower win rate. Whereas, if only two hands are dealt and one is AA, the other hand is generally going to be easily-beaten crap. So I was of the opinion that this accounted for the high win rate for AA in "heads up".

So the question is: Is it "heads up" only when you START with two players, or if you cut 9 hands down to 2, does that count as heads up?

(Incidentally, I wandered over to Wizard of Odds and it said that in an 8 person game AA in the hole only had a 39% chance of winning, which is 21% worse than the other figure I had in my head -- which I don't recall the source for, sadly.)

The guy was really rude and obnoxious about it, so I turned off his chat and took great pleasure in knocking his ass out of the tournament below the money. Took second -- almost managed to overcome the winner's large chip advantage but luck bailed on me finally

So what *IS* the correct way to figure odds to win with AA in the hole? And is it dependent on the number of people dealt into the hand, or only on the number playing after the flop?
The odds of AA against a # of hands is figured by how many take the flop only. so let's say it's a 9-handed game, and you raise and 3 people call. Now, your odds of winning are against 3 players, not 8. However, you're probably not against random hands. Someone probably doesn't have T3o. This is where you get to know your ranges. You need to know what hand types the person would have, and how your hand holds up to that range. Download pokerstove now.

And really, after the flop, all the odds change. Pokerstove odds are useful in calculating preflop if you're calling an all-in and determining if you have the odds. In No Limit, it's about hand ranges and stack sizes more than preflop % matchups.
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Old 06-03-2008, 03:37 AM   #48
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Re: ***** Official Dumb Questions Thread ****

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So is it common to use an hud?

How does it work? Are you saying that if I play a table right now it will show their statistics? Where will it show it? I don't understand how this looks like.

Also, what are all these calculations people keep doing here? I think its ev calculations. What is that and how do I do it?
I'm not sure what % of players use one.

You can set it up around a seat how you want it displayed. You can set what stats will show up what colors for diff ranges, what size text, etc.

An EV calculation is an expected value calculation. Let's say you have A A and you think your opponent has something like T T and the flop is:

T Q K

You can use pokerstove and see that your odds of winning are 42.6%.

There's $1 in the pot and you both have $10 left. You bet $1 and he goes all-in. You have to call $9 to win $12.

The total pot if you call is $21. So your equity in the pot if you call is 9/21, or 3/7, 42.9%.

Your equity in the hand is 42.6%.

So you actually have less odds to win by calling than the pot odds you're getting (by a mere .3%). Calling loses 2.7 cents per call.

What you do is, figure your chances of winning, based on # of outs. Then, you can, for the sake of ease, multiply by 2 for every street yet to come. So on the flop, multiply by 4, turn by 2. This gives you an approximate % chance of winning. If the pot is giving you bigger odds, call.

I think there's a sticky probably in the probability forum, or a lot of poker books have a chapter on equity.

Last edited by udbrky; 06-03-2008 at 03:53 AM.
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Old 06-03-2008, 03:45 AM   #49
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Re: ***** Official Dumb Questions Thread ****

I like Cry Me A River's analysis better. It makes more sense. Also, I think a lot of people who get pocket rockets ride them down to their doom even if the board is showing problems. Just a few minutes ago I bet a JT hearts. By the turn, I had two pair (obviously not the flush or straight I was after, but not bad.) I'm betting very straightforwardly throughout, no tricks. The villain takes me to the end and then calls my last (pretty big) bet, and flips over his pocket rockets. And is upset when my two pair wins.

Possibly my original opponent (not the same guy) suffered from the same sort of AA myopia and didn't pay attention to the possibilities offered up by the board.

Also, I think you do better playing mid to low level suited connectors against AA and KK. If you play AK or AQ you're going to lose most of the time -- a number of your "outs" do more good for the villain than for you. Of course, this is assuming you have some clue what the villain has from his betting so you can choose what to put up against him. A small flop offers up chances for 2 pairs (that won't make trips with the big boys) plus outside straights and flushes. (At least, it always seems to be the little guys that beat me when I'm AA and I go down in flames.)
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Old 06-03-2008, 03:45 AM   #50
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Re: ***** Official Dumb Questions Thread ****

Quote:
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I'm not sure what % of players use one.

You can set it up around a seat how you want it displayed. You can set what stats will show up what colors for diff ranges, what size text, etc.
But where does it show the stats? Is it in another window?
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