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Old 01-11-2009, 02:12 PM   #126
gangip
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Re: NL10 Getting stomped - but am I really such a bad player?

seems like you may be playing a little too aggressive for nl10

everyone there is a maniac calling station, so you counter this by just value betting your monster hands and mucking your ****ty ones (so maybe you should cbet the flop less since you're gonna get called a lot. only cbet if you see a guy who has folded to flop cbets a bunch or if you have a strong draw / made hand)
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Old 01-11-2009, 02:18 PM   #127
tjallen22
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Re: NL10 Getting stomped - but am I really such a bad player?

I was/am having a similar problem. I was Cbetting 90%+ and getting called by just about everything. I started to cbet a little less, only on 'scary' boards, or if the action on the flop permitted a cbet, i.e I am in position and an Ace is checked to me, I will cbet the ace. Other than that I am starting to let a lot of the "marginal" cbet situations go. and just value bet the hell out of all of my hands. I am still fairly new to 10NL 6max but since I've started adjusting this way I have seen improvement.
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Old 01-11-2009, 02:22 PM   #128
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Re: NL10 Getting stomped - but am I really such a bad player?

Like gangip said, you might be a little too aggressive at this limit. I used to play 25NL and 50NL (was a winning player, but always need weekend money and couldn't stay rolled), and when I dropped to 10NL I realized I had to play much more passive. There is very little bluffing at 10NL and most plays are very transparent. Your stats look pretty solid aside from being a little overaggressive and calling 3bets way too often for 10NL. Most people here are only 3betting with at least 2 pair.
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Old 01-11-2009, 07:24 PM   #129
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Re: NL10 Getting stomped - but am I really such a bad player?

Thank you very much for your input guys! It is also reassuring that you seem to agree. What you say sounds reasonable to me as well, as I play against so many stations that often to "stupid" calls that end up costing me money.

I am going to lessen my aggression and pay more attention to what is working at the level I am playing at instead of just "going by the book".

Tremble, calling stations - for I am coming for your rolls. The money. Not bread.
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Old 01-11-2009, 07:28 PM   #130
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Re: NL10 Getting stomped - but am I really such a bad player?

your graph is sick, especially over that small of a sample.
the above advice is good. you can play very straightforward at nl10.

raise constantly. play strong hands and play in position. never slowplay.
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Old 01-11-2009, 07:54 PM   #131
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Re: NL10 Getting stomped - but am I really such a bad player?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyser112 View Post

raise constantly. play strong hands and play in position. never slowplay.

Also dont cbet all the time know when you should check behind if you think that the flop hit your opponents range
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Old 01-12-2009, 04:17 AM   #132
Slaktalot
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Re: NL10 Getting stomped - but am I really such a bad player?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyser112 View Post
your graph is sick, especially over that small of a sample.
Thanks for acknowledging that - it has felt unreal at times. The other day I lost 4 buyins at one table in less than an hour. All four situations I were all-in and had btw 63-91.7% chance of winning! But I guess that's poker.
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Old 01-12-2009, 04:31 AM   #133
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Re: NL10 Getting stomped - but am I really such a bad player?

Not bragging or anything (hopefully). I just did a quick session at 10NL 6-max as a trial run for my backer before I moved up to 25NL for him. Here were my stats:





From what I can tell, you are playing much tighter than myself preflop (My pfr> your vpip), 3-betting fairly wide and you were super aggressive.

My biggest guess, from what I can tell, is that you are making most of your mistakes postflop, especially considering how tight you are preflop. It's hard to say without actually seeing you play. Having a reasonably loose preflop game (it is 6-max and its against donks usually), well timed aggression, stronger postflop and running better I think are the things you are missing most
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Old 01-12-2009, 04:32 AM   #134
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Re: NL10 Getting stomped - but am I really such a bad player?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slaktalot View Post
Thanks for acknowledging that - it has felt unreal at times. The other day I lost 4 buyins at one table in less than an hour. All four situations I were all-in and had btw 63-91.7% chance of winning! But I guess that's poker.
Well I'm pretty new to online poker myself, but one thing that could help you out, don't continue playing at a table you're losing. Just pick a new one.
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Old 01-12-2009, 04:43 AM   #135
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Re: NL10 Getting stomped - but am I really such a bad player?

Just my $0.02 but it also seems to me that you are playing to many hands from the blinds, especially the small blind...you need to tighten up here and play your hands from position.

Beer.
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Old 01-12-2009, 04:57 AM   #136
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Re: NL10 Getting stomped - but am I really such a bad player?

Why do you open limp?
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Old 01-12-2009, 05:25 AM   #137
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Re: NL10 Getting stomped - but am I really such a bad player?

I've never played at William Hill so I've no idea how the games there play, but I'd be very surprised if calling 3-bets 58% of the time is profitable.

It'd be interesting to look at all the hands where you called a 3-bet and see how much you're winning/losing with those.

Good Luck
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Old 01-12-2009, 05:44 AM   #138
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Re: NL10 Getting stomped - but am I really such a bad player?

you need to learn postflop play
i roughly have an idea where your problem is.
next time you ask for help, be more transparent ok.
only showing EV is asking for people to tell you that you play good, continue on.
I would bet money on that you are losing alot of money on without showdown.
thus win with showdown and win without showdown line is missing.
once you improve your postflop game, you'll see profit.
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Old 01-12-2009, 05:54 AM   #139
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Re: NL10 Getting stomped - but am I really such a bad player?

A few mistakes

1. You are Cbetting flop much too much (should be between 45-65%)
2. You are calling 3bets too light (should be over 60%)
3. You are limping behind/cold calling too often (raise more preflop)
4. You are playing too many hands from the first two positions (if you want you could open your range a bit more OTB and definitely in CO)

Just make sure you know who you're playing against and play a tight and solid ABC game.
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Old 01-12-2009, 06:24 AM   #140
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Re: NL10 Getting stomped - but am I really such a bad player?

Cbetting depends on the player you are CBetting.. if you find a lot of people at your table folding to cbets then it should be around 70-75%. use cbets when you know it will take down a pot

a good player can be profitable even when card dead because cbets and stealing blinds are great rewards
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Old 01-12-2009, 07:36 AM   #141
Slaktalot
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Re: NL10 Getting stomped - but am I really such a bad player?

Quote:
Originally Posted by allyasia View Post
you need to learn postflop play
i roughly have an idea where your problem is.
next time you ask for help, be more transparent ok.
only showing EV is asking for people to tell you that you play good, continue on.
I would bet money on that you are losing alot of money on without showdown.
thus win with showdown and win without showdown line is missing.
once you improve your postflop game, you'll see profit.
Here's the graph with w/wo showdown:

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Old 01-12-2009, 07:46 AM   #142
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Re: NL10 Getting stomped - but am I really such a bad player?

Quote:
Why do you open limp?
I usually do it on low pocket pairs to see the flop cheaply. With the passive preflop play going on I feel I often manage to see the flop unraised. A few times I have also limped from UTG with AA or KK when there are aggressive players in late positions.

Quote:
It'd be interesting to look at all the hands where you called a 3-bet and see how much you're winning/losing with those.
I have called a 3bet a total of 137 times. With a WTSD of 46.9% and W$SD of 47.8% i have a nice -506.35BB/100 loss here... I definitely need to fold/4bet more in these situations. Thank you for pointing it out.

Xptbot, are you saying that I should call 3bets more? Your other three points seem very reasonable.

Last edited by Slaktalot; 01-12-2009 at 07:53 AM.
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Old 01-12-2009, 07:59 AM   #143
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

guys/gals, fyi if you see a new thread that is essentially a stats thread feel free to hit that notify mod button so we can get it shipped here becasue we wont always spot it and this thread can slide off the front page and people wont find it if they arent looking for it. cheers, ozi
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Old 01-12-2009, 08:22 AM   #144
Xptbot
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

My bad, in my PT3 my stats are fold to 3bets and not call 3bets.
NO you should call LESS 3bets, the percentage at 25NL and under to call a 3bet should be closer to 40% (for you). At the higher stakes, people won't minbet as much though, so this stat should decrease to around 25%.

Looking at your graph, it looks like you're not giving up in spots where you should. Cbet selectively against selective opponents (for example, against a nit it is always profitable to 3bet, against a calling station, only 3bet on Kxx rainbow flop) etc.

It would be nice if we could see your actual hands stats to see your top winners and top losers. The money at the micros normally comes from pairs and high broadways. You should be trying to avoid marginal spots. One of your problems might be, not giving up on hands where you want to win, maybe you're the type of player who doesn't want to give up AK postflop in a 3bet pot whether or not you hit the A or K.

I suggest looking through your biggest losing hands and seeing what you're doing wrong with this hand. Also, if AK isn't somewhere in the top 10 hands of your winnings then you're doing something wrong with it (which a lot of player do wrong including myself lol, I just found this out after looking through all my big losses with AK). For example, you're losing a lot with 97s, look through your big hands that you lost and see what you're doing wrong. Maybe you should fold this preflop? Maybe you should not chase draws as much? etc etc

EDIT: NEVER OPEN LIMP EVER!!!!!!!, just don't ok... with PP cc IP but open OOP, in the blinds it is ok to fold PP depending on who you're up against. And limping AA/KK preflop is just useless, it doesn't do anything but make yourself more exploitable.
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Old 01-12-2009, 08:51 AM   #145
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

Very interesting, thank you. But are you saying I could pfr OOP with, say, 22,33,44? Or should I rather just lay down those hands in early positions? It feels a bit like an opportunity lost to not see a cheap flop with them...

Here are my best and worst holecard stats. As I've played so few hands there's lots and lots of variance in these stats still. (It however shows that I have a bad profitability with TT,JJ,QQ. In situations where I have called 3bets these hands are profitable though.)

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Old 01-12-2009, 09:08 AM   #146
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slaktalot View Post
Very interesting, thank you. But are you saying I could pfr OOP with, say, 22,33,44? Or should I rather just lay down those hands in early positions? It feels a bit like an opportunity lost to not see a cheap flop with them...
Yes you should raise those, from EP.

I personally raise all Pairs, AJ+ and KQ from UTG and in MP I only widen the range slightly to QJ+ and AT+

but then from CO I start playing suited Aces and many suited connectors

EDIT: and yeah, you should be looking at how you played all those hands in the negative as many of them should actually be in the positive (especially TT+), Of course, we must blame variance for some of those losses though.
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Old 01-12-2009, 09:16 AM   #147
Slaktalot
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xptbot View Post
Yes you should raise those, from EP.

I personally raise all Pairs, AJ+ and KQ from UTG and in MP I only widen the range slightly to QJ+ and AT+

but then from CO I start playing suited Aces and many suited connectors

EDIT: and yeah, you should be looking at how you played all those hands in the negative as many of them should actually be in the positive (especially TT+), Of course, we must blame variance for some of those losses though.
Thank you for your input Xptbot. And thanks to everyone else who has contributed. I have taken notes of your posts and will do my utmost to correct my play accordingly. You'll find an update from me somewhere here as soon as I have accumulated some hands (or you'll find me in the obituaries, lol)!
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Old 01-12-2009, 01:46 PM   #148
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

Well after a good 12k breakeven, I thought it would be an idea to get some help with my stats.

Sorry they're not from PT or HM (getting HM next week)

its 80 precent 2nl and 20 percent 5nl

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Old 01-19-2009, 02:54 AM   #149
buck0383
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NL10 running 23/19/3.2

Like title says im running 23/19/3.2 When i played limit i was a very tight player but in NL it seems to be profitable to loosen up and im doing ok now because everyone and their mom let me steal blinds and pots. but my ? is is this ok at this limit(nl10) because i can get away with that or is this going to catch up with me in the long term?
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Old 01-19-2009, 03:11 AM   #150
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Re: NL10 running 23/19/3.2

Is this FR or 6-max? In 6-max these are great stats
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