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** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

12-08-2009 , 07:52 PM
FlyLikeABird: your stats look moderately weak-tight. Your W$WSF is lowish, and you win a lot at showdown. Also I think you limp a bit too much pre.
I'd classify you as "OK nitty TAG". I would think you can (iso-)raise a bit more pre, and probably make a few more moves postflop (double barreling, floating, etc) but not dramatically so. Try to learn to recognize situations where pots are just up for grabs for the first one to bluff at it, or villains who will fold to multiple barrels. With your style, you should have a solid nitty image, so I think you can get away with a few moves here and there.

Other than that: very nice job.
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
12-08-2009 , 08:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fabadam
elitethut: your preflop game is out of whack -- you are limping too much and not raising enough. This is very common (I think I've said this about 30 times in this thread now) and I think it derives from a common misunderstanding about preflop: you probably limp because you want to see a cheap flop. This can be good with marginal speculative hands, especially if you have position.
However, in general you want to put money in preflop if you think you have the best hand. And in that case, raise rather than limp. It's not because you don't want to see a flop cheap, it's because you don't want THE OTHER PLAYERS to see a flop cehap. You are charging them to see a flop.

Furthermore, your stats postflop look ridiculously aggressive, you are betting all the time. You still win a ton at showdown, which I think means you have ran hot over your last 2k hands.

Finally, it looks like your average session is about 25 hands long. WTF is up with that?
Well, I don't know why you say that I limp....I NEVER limp....Actually, for me, it's fold or raise (preflop). And this is why as you say I am too aggressive after the flop...I fold a lot of hands so when I go (I raise) and I always have something like 88+, A10+, KJ+ or KQ depending on position. This is why I win a lot of showdowns...I only go with premium hands. So that's it for the first part of your analysis...I think it's somewhat wrong. But correct me if I AM wrong...

As for the second part about my aggression, I think you are right. Even though I HAVE to be aggressive on flop, turn, and river because I only go with premium hands, I tend to have difficulties to fold when I know I am beaten. For example, if I hold KK, I raise 3xBB preflop and someone calls with A-Q, there's a A on the flop. In this case, I have a lot of difficulty to fold.

(I don't know if this is the case, but when looking at my VP$IP and other stats like this, you should look at the stats I have at .10 tables)

Thanks for the reply
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
12-08-2009 , 08:14 PM
elite: your VP$IP is 20.6%, your PFR is 10.7% (at NL10). So half the time you put money in the pot, you are calling, not raising. That's why I say you limp: you appear to do it about half the hands you play.

Also, you don't win hands at showdown by playing premium hands preflop. You win hands at showdown by having the best hand on the river and not everyone else folds.
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
12-08-2009 , 08:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fabadam
VanMan2008: It seems you are a weak-tight nit, suffering from FGators syndrome. (FGators was/is a midstakes player who had exactly the same graph as you over 1.5 million hands, resulting in a legendary 2+2 thread. See FGators syndrome explained for some high level theory.)

Your preflop is sort of OK, except that I think you are too loose in the BB.
However, look at your postflop stats: you basically fold whenever someone bets or raises. So on any given postflop street, you basically have two moves: bet, or check/fold. That's gonna be picked up even by fish often.

I suspect (cant really see that in stats) that you raise preflop, c-bet the flop and then give up unless you hit something. Now that is a fairly common scenario, but at NL5 you have to learn to recognize the folks who will call your c-bet with a worse hand. Yes, you can often bet AQo for value on a 762r flop against them, because they'll call the c-bet with QJ.

You are going to have to learn to play poker postflop, there's no other way.
I'd say that you are fairly accurate in your description. I often do PFR, cbet, then check/call the turn, then if i don't hit check/fold the river.

So is your advice then to fire off the double barrel more often after my cbets are called?

I'm also think that I play OOP too often and then am in these bad check/call spots...rather than in position where I can control the play...thoughts on my positioning?

Any other advice on getting that redline to level out?

Thanks man, greatly appreciated.
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
12-08-2009 , 09:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fabadam
elite: your VP$IP is 20.6%, your PFR is 10.7% (at NL10). So half the time you put money in the pot, you are calling, not raising. That's why I say you limp: you appear to do it about half the hands you play.
Wow you're right...it's strange though...I wasn't under the impression that I was calling often preflop.

I will try to watch this in my next session.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fabadam
Also, you don't win hands at showdown by playing premium hands preflop. You win hands at showdown by having the best hand on the river and not everyone else folds.
Yes...what is it suppose to mean? Is it good or bad?


Thanks again ! I am just starting playing poker and I would like to improve my skills !! Your advices in this thread are very useful ! I am using PT3 but in fact I have to say I have a hard time actually using the program to improve my poker skills.


Edit:
Just a question though... If someone raises 3xbb preflop, and I call the raise with, let's say, KQ. Is it calculated as a limp ? (for PT3).

Last edited by elitethut; 12-08-2009 at 09:17 PM.
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
12-09-2009 , 04:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by elitethut
Yes...what is it suppose to mean? Is it good or bad?
It means that your preflop hand selection has little or no relation to your showdown results. There are 3 streets of action between the two that dictate it.


Quote:

Thanks again ! I am just starting playing poker and I would like to improve my skills !! Your advices in this thread are very useful ! I am using PT3 but in fact I have to say I have a hard time actually using the program to improve my poker skills.


Edit:
Just a question though... If someone raises 3xbb preflop, and I call the raise with, let's say, KQ. Is it calculated as a limp ? (for PT3).
Yes, that is also a call (and not a raise). PT3 and HEM just count your actions everytime you do something. If you call, it counts as a call, if you raise, it counts as a raise.
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
12-09-2009 , 04:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanMan2008
I'd say that you are fairly accurate in your description. I often do PFR, cbet, then check/call the turn, then if i don't hit check/fold the river.

So is your advice then to fire off the double barrel more often after my cbets are called?

I'm also think that I play OOP too often and then am in these bad check/call spots...rather than in position where I can control the play...thoughts on my positioning?
It's always good to strive to play in position more. I can't give any standard advice what to do OOP; maybe start thinking about bet/fold plays a bit more but that's really just guessing.

Quote:

Any other advice on getting that redline to level out?
It's very easy to reverse yuur redline: just go all-in all the time. Of course your blue line will take a steep dive, and your green line as well.
There is no easy solution, nor should you worry about the red line by itself.
One idea though (another guess): maybe start value betting the river harder and thinner.
I heard a good thought the other day on Deuce Plays: if your opponent snap calls your river value bet, you should have bet more.
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
12-10-2009 , 10:19 PM
I started not too long ago at 5nl on ps, lost around 12+bi, dropped to 2nl, did well, came back to 5nl, and I'm just breaking even...





Tell me if you have suggestions, thanks!
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
12-11-2009 , 06:15 AM
ramier: 5 bb/100 isn't great, but it's not very bad either. Also this is a small smaple of course.
I'd say the problem isn't in your stats. You could be a bit more position aware preflop, your late position VPIPs are low relative to early position VPIP.
Postflop it looks like you might be a bit overaggressive (high AF, and very high AFq) so maybe you are trying to bluff too much for NL5.
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
12-14-2009 , 01:10 PM


i believe i'm beeing too nit for 6 max

any sugestion of what i should do to improve my red line ?

** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
12-15-2009 , 08:50 AM
Anderson: Yes, that is extremely tight for 6-max, open up in late position a bit more I would say (bit of a guess since you don't show positional stats.

As for the red line: don't get hung up on that. However, it looks like you could improve here by bluffing a bit more and by value betting harder (then your opponents will fold more losers but you win more on the times you do get called).
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
12-15-2009 , 07:12 PM







On the one hand, I've been running like God so far this month over a teeny teeny sample size. On the other hand, my EV sucks and I've been getting rivered left and right. Plus, I'm stacking off WAY too light. On the third hand, wow am I a lagtard. (FR btw)

Last edited by zoltan; 12-15-2009 at 07:18 PM.
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
12-15-2009 , 07:31 PM
Here are my first 10,000 hands, all 2NL. I'm glad that I'm not losing but I don't seem to be winning much either. I'm sure there are a lot of leaks here, I'm just trying to to get some tips before moving up to 5NL. I haven't been trying to steal the blinds or raising pre-flop as much as I should, mostly because I have been focusing on other things like not doubling up the short stack all the time

Thanks in advance!





** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
12-16-2009 , 04:33 AM
mandu: preflop you should certainly become more positional. Your VPIP is now roughly equal in every position except the BB, while it should be at least twice as high on the button compared to UTG.

Postflop it looks like you are playing weak-tight: your W$SD is very high, but you lose a ton in non-showdown pots. That means you are probably folding a lot of winners and/or not betting hard enough yourself.
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
12-16-2009 , 06:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fabadam
mandu: preflop you should certainly become more positional. Your VPIP is now roughly equal in every position except the BB, while it should be at least twice as high on the button compared to UTG.

Postflop it looks like you are playing weak-tight: your W$SD is very high, but you lose a ton in non-showdown pots. That means you are probably folding a lot of winners and/or not betting hard enough yourself.
Thanks for the insight!

I could have sworn I was 'positionally aware' but the numbers don't lie! I suppose I should probably tighten up a bit in early position and maybe loosen up a bit in later positions. After looking through some of your other comments in this thread I definitely want to stop limping so much also, I'm begining to understand there are many reasons for open raising.

I think the problem is probably me not betting the winning hands enough and letting people push me off my top pairs or even two pair if it isn't the nuts. I play full ring so I guess I assume that the best hand is going to be close to the best possible hand too much.

Looking forward to posting a better graph after the next 5 or 10k hands
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
12-16-2009 , 08:13 PM
Yes, I know I don't have a lot of hands, but just started and any input would be helpful.





** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
12-17-2009 , 07:39 AM
noobsickle: very little to say after just 1k hands. Looks tight but OK, it seems you open up your range only on the button, and not at all in cutoff and hijack. You could probably (open- or iso-) raie a bit more there too.
The rest looks sort of OK, but it's only 1k hands so not very meaningful.
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
12-17-2009 , 05:30 PM
Here are my stats for 10NL
I waited till I had a decent amount of hands before posting.
I really want to improve my winrate, and I do think most of my leaks are post flop (Specially 3bet pot OOP), anyone has a suggestion for me?





** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
12-17-2009 , 06:54 PM
crisis: it looks like you played 5-max and less exclusively. For that, your preflop stats are super nitty.
Your postflop stats are a bit harder byt they look very weak tight: your W$WSF is below 40%, while it should be high since you're such a preflop nit. Your W$SD is VERY high, so it looks like you are folding a lot of winners, and/or not value betting hard enough.
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
12-21-2009 , 06:42 PM
okay. So I've got to be one of the biggest fishes ever.....Please can you have a look at my stats and tell me if you need to see more (what should my call 3bet % be...?)



** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
12-21-2009 , 08:28 PM
m.rhodes: I don't think the problem is in your preflop play. Very noticable though is that
(1) Your AF (Aggr Factor) is definitely too low (< 2)
(2) Your WTSD is VERY HIGH )>30%.

Frankly it looks like you are a calling station, even though you win a lot of showdown pots (W$SD high).

Tip #1: at the micros, if people bet or raise big, they are not bluffing. They have the nuts.
That's a guess, but based on this I can't think of much else.
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
12-22-2009 , 10:16 PM
Ok, this is my first 10,000 hands playing cash, i usually played SnGo's but recently decided to change.
I feel that i can beat these limits but looking at my stats I'm not so sure.
any type of input would be helpful to me to consistently beat these stakes
thanks.
http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/3599/graphsn.jpg
http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/4863/statshr.jpg
http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/3290/morestats.jpg
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
12-23-2009 , 05:17 PM
wazzer, if you want someone to take the trouble to look at your stats, you'd better link them as in-post images like everyone else.

I had a look and it looks like you are an extermaly weak-tight nit. You play very few hands preflop, and then you fold most of them post. You win most hands when you go to showdown and fold pretty much everything else.
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
12-24-2009 , 04:40 PM
Heres my stats after 5k hands (2.5k in 2NL then 2.5k in 5NL)
I'm thinking my leaks are spewing too much after the flop by c-betting bad flops and calling down marginal hands as the non-showdown winnings hardly show a profit in the graph =/
Any comments would be very helpful. Also, any advice on when to move up to 10NL/25NL bankroll/winrate wise? Many people tell me that 20 buyins is the standard line for BR, what about winrates?

** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
12-24-2009 , 05:23 PM
kilowaro, cpngratulations you are crushing the nano-stakes with some real tight preflop play and apparently very good aggressive postflop play.
Also, you are running hotter than the sun.

The shape of your graph is near perfect, BTW, but you'll never be able to keep it like this. A long term winrate of 20 bb/100 is VERY good. There's no way that 70 bb/100 is sustainable, so enjoy the run while it lasts.
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