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** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

08-08-2009 , 07:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodhisoma
A polite note to the forum mods; I spent an hour getting this together and now, thanks to it being moved, 1/50th the number of people will see it.

I apologize for not posting it here initially, I wasn't trying to ignore the rules, I just thought this was for brags and whatnot, not for actual analysis.

I do, however, think it's a horrible idea.

bodhi
I've looked at all the pics you posted fairly closely and frankly, there's just not a lot to see.
It looks like youve been running quite bad, as in you shouldn't run this bad about 90-95% of the time over 20k hands. That is just SWAG (Scientific Wild Assed Guess) though based on my experience.

Your stats don't look all that bad, which isnt surpri'sing since you've obviously giving your game considerable thought. Still there's some abvious leaks, even considering it's NL10, where optimal play is a bit weird.
(1) You don't steal nearly enough. If your steal% is under 30%, you're forgetting to pick up some free money.
(2) You limp/call preflop way too often. For good play, your PFR is much closer to your VPIP. That is, come in raising whenever you can. Don't specifically aim for that, but when I play my natural game, it's about 25/21. That's on 6-max. For FR it should probably be something like 22/16 or so (another SWAG).
Take a look at the sticky posts of SSNL forum, ther's a post there about "Taking stealing to the next level" or something. It's essentially about iso-raising in position wherever you can.
(3) You're W$WSF is quite low (42%) for the type of game you play. This means to me that you're giving up too often. Note that this is a tricky field , since when you overdo it, you'll be a spew monkey from heaven to your opponents.
(4) As for blind defending, it's fine to just fold nearly all of the time. However, it may pay to look for spots to 3-bet notorious stealers. Look for situations where:
(a) You're against a button steal who steals a lot (like 50%)
(b) You have a hand that has value against 50% of the hands, and you don't like to call. That would be hands like 87s, KTs, KQo, etc.
Now just 3-bet. you're gonna see tons of folds, and that's just 6BB every time.

That's all for now
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
08-08-2009 , 08:37 PM
I'm hoping that someone good with stats can take a look at mine and tell me which ones are abnormal (way under or way over). I 6-table 10NL 6-max at Full Tilt. This is over a 10,000 + hand sample.

If there's anything that anyone can explain to me based off of my stats, I am grateful since I'm basically playing blind in terms of numbers and strategy, just using my own common sense.

Overall BB/100: 4.76
Sessions won: 55.88%
W$WSF: 44.98
W$SD: 62.53
WTSD: 30.25
CCPF: 8.43
VPIP: 19.12
PFR: 10.45
Win %: 15.33

Position

BB: Vpip = 11.54, Win % = 26.48, PFR = 3.74, BB/Hand = negative 0.26
SB: Vpip = 28.38, Win % = 16.38, PFR = 10.9, BB/Hand = negative 0.02
Button: Vpip = 20.97, Win % = 13.68, PFR = 13.96, BB/Hand = 0.29
Pos. 1: Vpip = 18.70, Win % = 12.67, PFR = 12.60, BB/Hand = 0.12
Pos 2: Vpip = 16.14, Win % = 8.99, PFR = 10.38, BB/Hand = 0.12
Pos 3: Vpip = 18.62, Win % = 10.37, PFR = 12.10, BB/Hand = 0.04


The following stats are all BB/100

Premium pockets J/J to A/A: 209.69
Medium pockets 7/7 to 10/10: 96.27
Small pockets 22 to 66: 27.25

High suited connectors 10/J to A/K: 73.64
Medium suited connectors 6/7 to 9/10: 47.02
Small suited connectors A/2 to 5/6: negative 8.21

Pre Flop

Voluntary Put Money in Pot: 63.95
Chance to Steal: 13.49
Chance to Steal Called: 6.85
Change to Steal Raised: 77.14
Open Limped: negative 4.18
Limp with Previous Callers: 33.26
Call any Raise: 44.93
Cold Called: 164.79
Any Raise: 92.33
Raise First In: 84.77
Did Not Raise: negative 5.46

Post Flop

Saw Flop: 62.19
Check: 29.73
Any Flop Call: 145.93
First in on Flop: 101.66
Did Not Bet: .01
C-bet: 99.95
C-bet Opportunity: 114.37
C-bet Opponent Checked: 163.88

Straight Draw on Flop: negative 20.04
Straight Draw Any Street: negative 35.22
Flush Draw on Flop: 113.92
Flush Draw Any Street: 70.77

Last edited by deepbanana; 08-08-2009 at 09:01 PM.
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
08-08-2009 , 10:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fabadam
[snip]

That's all for now
Wow. Thanks very much. I'm glad to hear that it's variance that's kicking my ass instead of my own play.

I'll check out that stick and look to plug those holes.

And thanks again; you just made all the time I spent putting it together worth it.

bodhi
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
08-09-2009 , 04:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodhisoma
Wow. Thanks very much. I'm glad to hear that it's variance that's kicking my ass instead of my own play.

I'll check out that stick and look to plug those holes.

And thanks again; you just made all the time I spent putting it together worth it.

bodhi
Well, I wasn't sure it was run-bad, because it's almost impossible to read that from stats, it just looked quite likely given your oeverall stats and the overview of your big pots.
It could be (and probably is, for a part of the losses at least) poor postflop play. Most of my own run-bad periods are caused for say 30-50% by tilty play induced by the run-bad.

To find out that, it helps to post trouble hands (not just hands you were beaten, but just hands you thought were tough) on the appropriate strategy forum, microNL or microNL fullring. And post reactions to other people's hands.
The discussions with pthers in a similar situation helps in getting your mind straight and thinking in thr right direction.
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
08-09-2009 , 04:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by deepbanana
I'm hoping that someone good with stats can take a look at mine and tell me which ones are abnormal (way under or way over). I 6-table 10NL 6-max at Full Tilt. This is over a 10,000 + hand sample.

If there's anything that anyone can explain to me based off of my stats, I am grateful since I'm basically playing blind in terms of numbers and strategy, just using my own common sense.
Not all of these stats are useful and/or meaningful, but here goes some:
(1) W$WSF is OK for NL10 I guess, especially given:
(2) WTSD/W$SD = 30/62: Wow, can I borrow your luckbox? 30% WTSD is very high, but if you're managing to win them >60% of the time you're obviously doing something right. That is incredibly high, which is why I think you're running hot.
It could also be you're not valuebetting the river enough: doing this causes many folds for showdowns you win if you check the river.
(3) Your positional stats show insufficient position awareness. In general your button VPIP should be much higher than your UTG VPIP. About twice as high as a general rule. In your case, tighten up in early position and loosen up in late position.
(4) I think you're limping too much rather than raising preflop, but judging from your results, this might actually work well at NL10.
(5) The BB/100 stats are fairly meaningless, certainly for specific hand types over such a small sample. For useful postflop stats look at things like aggression factor (AF), aggression frequency, cbet%, etc.
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
08-09-2009 , 02:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fabadam
(3) Your positional stats show insufficient position awareness. In general your button VPIP should be much higher than your UTG VPIP. About twice as high as a general rule. In your case, tighten up in early position and loosen up in late position.
As an illustration, here are my positional stats over the last 30k hands:
Position VPIP% PFR%
1) small blind 32.7 19.2
2) big blind 19.1 11.8
3) early 16.7 16.6
4) middle 18.7 17.6
5) cutoff 24.9 22.7
6) button 35.5 31.4
Total: 25.7 20.5

Note that my button VPIP is MORE than twice the UTG VPIP, but I steal a metric ****load on the button (45%).
However, I'm considering tightening up UTG, since I think I'm playing too loose there.
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
08-09-2009 , 08:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodhisoma
tl;dr HALP!

Been playing for about six weeks now, @ 18.7k hands. I know 20k is considered kind of minimum and 50k is considered much better. To make matters even worse, I feel like I've only really obtained some semblance of understanding for things like position, pot sizing and rudimentary hand reading in the last 5k or so.
Stop open limping and start calling in some spots postflop (probably start with medium strength or semistrong hands on dry boards against non-passive opponents). Overall I'd say you're doing ok for someone who started playing 6 weeks ago.
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
08-10-2009 , 12:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DBallerz
Is there anything that stands out from these stats that make cause me to be a bad player?

You're in too many pots with 1 raiser, stop calling so much pre.
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
08-11-2009 , 04:31 AM
Hello guys i would like some reviewing on my stats!
i havent been playing for that long so i think i have many leaks so im thinkin maybe on this way i could try to fight that hehe taking all sorts of comments good or bad..


** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
08-13-2009 , 08:17 PM
I don't want to bore anyone, as I'm here mainly seeking advice, and as such will try and keep this short.

I came into poker through super-soft casino games, made a pretty penny drilling high-calibre hands into drunks/the elderly.

Have run up 0$ to ~$100 a few times on Stars and FT and either withdrawn or thrown it away. Anyway, I stuck to my guns this time and played proper poker and here are the results:






So 24-tabling at about 20bb/100. Is this a heater or am I doing this right? I have had similar success at 10NL but those hands are on my other computer and my girlfriend's computer. Seeing as with all these FTP bonuses and Stars stuff my Bank Roll was definitely sufficient enough for 25NL, I gave that ago (composite graph):




I had to purge those hands. It is a massive confidence crippler. . Is the play level THAT different at 25NL from 10NL?
I felt as though my balls popped up into my abdomen every time I raised preflop at 25NL - maybe this "scared money" is making my play transparent and weak?

I have watched Deuces Cracked's "Movin on Up (Full Ring)" but the 25NL section is only about 40 minutes long.

The 6max and heads up videos and articles I read are tempting; it seems as though when you are short handed the skill between players is heavily amplified, obviously leading to greater/lower winrates.

I have to move up, I'm sick of these super-micro stakes, but at the same time should I be making the move to 6max and start working on that game, or should I cautiously try 25NL again. FR is just full of super tight nits and squeezing money out of them seems futile, although QQ-Quads-QQ and WCGRider have graphs which seem to suggest otherwise.

Any tips are greatly appreciated, and sorry if the questions seem vague - I'm just really confused about where to go/what to do now/(FR/6max/HU?). I tried to shift up gears but got a big slap.

Cheers
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
08-13-2009 , 09:29 PM
I'd step down to NL10 and then move up to NL25 after you have a solid win rate over 20k-30k hands. Bankroll is a large factor in determining what limit to play at, but so is skill.
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
08-13-2009 , 09:56 PM
When you first move up it is really normal to have that "ball in abdomen feeling" as you described it. I had it too when first moving up to 25NL, and it causes you to play super tight, think people are playing back at you etc.

After you get used to the level though, and put some hands in, the ammount being played for should feel insignificant yet again. An no 10NL isn't that different than 25 NL.
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
08-13-2009 , 10:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyLikeABird
An no 10NL isn't that different than 25 NL.
No it isn't, and it's not even close.

I moved back down last night to try to 24 table for the first time, and I was running over everyone like no tomorrow, it's completely different to 25NL. There are still tons of bad players at 25NL, but they're not stacking off as light, there's more regs and the play is more aggro.

Moving up you may notice a slight difference, but move up, play 15k hands at 25NL and move back down one night to try **** out and it's a completely different ball game, it was incredible.
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
08-14-2009 , 11:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~run.it.twice
No it isn't, and it's not even close.

I moved back down last night to try to 24 table for the first time, and I was running over everyone like no tomorrow, it's completely different to 25NL. There are still tons of bad players at 25NL, but they're not stacking off as light, there's more regs and the play is more aggro.

Moving up you may notice a slight difference, but move up, play 15k hands at 25NL and move back down one night to try **** out and it's a completely different ball game, it was incredible.
The play is more aggressive maybe. I haven't noticed much dif in winrates. in the two however. My point is the players are equally BAD, perhaps just in different ways.

At NL 10 you have more call down type players while at NL 10 you get a bunch of 60/40 types as well. Both are equally horrible, minor adjustments are all it takes imo.
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
08-14-2009 , 03:35 PM
Hey guys, looking for some advice on 10Nl play.

I have read a lot of the strat on 10NL in the time I've been lurking these forums but for whatever reason I can't seem to beat it.

I beat easlily 2nl and 5NL over 50k hands and especially buying deep 10$ for 5Nl, but for whatever reason I can't seem to crack the 10NL and it's getting to the point where I'm playing tourneys again to do new things rather than keep trying to beat 10Nl.

All I want to to is beat 10Nl for 2BB/100 for bout 50k hands or so and move up but I'm at 30k and not looking good.

So, I will post some of my graphs and stats in hopes that someone can point out some things I may want to look at..something I'm not good at figuring out... yet, I'm still trying to figure out what all the stats mean but i'm getting there...

THX in advance

[IMG] Shot at 2009-08-14[/IMG]

Shot at 2009-08-14
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
08-14-2009 , 07:43 PM
Ok played over 10k hands, taking shots at 5nl but running pretty bad - kind of sucks.
Any thoughts on where I can improve is welcome.
I do feel as though I need to loosen up in the BTN and CO



** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
08-15-2009 , 04:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbros2
Ok played over 10k hands, taking shots at 5nl but running pretty bad - kind of sucks.
Any thoughts on where I can improve is welcome.
I do feel as though I need to loosen up in the BTN and CO
If you want to play looser start on the button. Your AF is huge but I think that's actually optimal against loose/passive players. Just remember that you won't get away with 80% cbet against more aggressive players.
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
08-15-2009 , 11:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokeherTee
Hey guys, looking for some advice on 10Nl play.

...

So, I will post some of my graphs and stats in hopes that someone can point out some things I may want to look at..something I'm not good at figuring out... yet, I'm still trying to figure out what all the stats mean but i'm getting there...
The stats you show don't tell us much, except that you are tight and moerately aggressive. The only specific thing I can tell is that you win relatively few pots you get involved in (W$WSF=38%) and that you win a huge amount (~60%) at showdown, even though you go to showdown relatively often (27%). My conclusion is that you are probably not value-betting enough or not large enough. Possibly you're also getting pushed off too often with the best hand, but it's hard to tell.
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
08-15-2009 , 01:20 PM
can someone plz look at my stats and graph they are on page 41 thanks !
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
08-15-2009 , 08:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarenzo
can someone plz look at my stats and graph they are on page 41 thanks !
The page number differs for me and probably for others, depending on how many posts per page they set. Put down the reply number instead
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
08-16-2009 , 04:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarenzo
can someone plz look at my stats and graph they are on page 41 thanks !
Reacting to post 609:
Your stats are reasonably solid, but look a bit like those of a TAGfish:
(1) VPIP/PFR --> you're raising more than half the tiime when you VPIP, which is good, but you're still limping in too often.
(2) Your Agg%, W$WSF and Cbet% make it look like the only time you ever bet without a good hand, is when you c-bet. That is fairly transparent for reasonably good players, even at NL25. Also you are quite nitty (assuming this is 6-max) which makes it easier to fold whenever you raise anyway.
Improving this is hard, and it's easy to go overboard (actually I think nearly everyone who starts this does), but try to really see places where just plain aggression can pick up pots.
(3) Have a look at your stats by position: your button VPIP should be at least 2x the UTG VPIP.

Edit: Personal note: I always try to get players with your profile to my left when I sit. That is becuse (1) you are niitty whicg makes it hard to take big pots off off you and (2) you are nitty, so it doesn't matter I'm out of position vs you.

Last edited by fabadam; 08-16-2009 at 04:52 AM.
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
08-18-2009 , 11:13 AM
Hi all,
can someone please review my stats to figure out were are the leaks in my game,
dont understand me wrong, im doing plus but not as good as i think i can.
The wired movement on the start of the graph was a bit donkplay when i started realmoney games xD.
But i think the 30k hands are a good samplesize to determine some mistakes in the long run.
THX

[HIDE][HIDE]
[HIDE][HIDE]
[HIDE][HIDE]
[HIDE][HIDE]

Last edited by luckbox_v.1.0; 08-18-2009 at 11:22 AM.
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
08-18-2009 , 12:30 PM
i cant edit my post above, so i write here.

All games are fullring nlh, played on ps.
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
08-18-2009 , 01:44 PM
Your pfr should be about 70-80% of your vpip, so i would work on raising more preflop.
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
08-18-2009 , 01:58 PM
You don't seem to be particularly positionally aware. You don't steal enough. You probably limp/call way too much. To me you look like a setmining-bot imo, but the bloodly exploitable kind. Most of this can be corrected by simply widening your open-raising range a bit in position. I would also guess that you open-limp a bit too much, you should stop that, particularly in EP/MP, raise or fold. And like was pointed out already, your PFR should be more like 70%-80% of your VPIP, basically meaning that when you enter a pot you should be taking the initiative. Your 3-bet% is just fine for this level (you only seem to 3-bet premium holdings, I would guess something like TT+, AK, AQs), but eventually you will need to expand it to take advantage of people that fold very easily to 3-bets.

That is my brief take at least.
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote

      
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