Thanks crazyfool. Yes, my style of play has been working but just yesterday I went on a $140 DOWNSWING. So this made me think twice.

My att to steal is about 26. I heard 30 is a good number to be at? Also, I heard that having a fairly large distance between vpip and pfr is bad? As you can see im playing a 14/8. Would this improve if I quit my preflop limping or is there something else that I need to do?

Knight: Your results are quite good given your playstyle. I'm guessing that you're running ahead of expectation.

Don't worry about a few percentage points in steal - You didn't lose $140 in a session by stealing too little.

I'd say the biggest issue with your play is your position play. You're playing too many hands out of position (and also too few in position).

It looks like you're pretty much playing the same set of hands in every position - this is not good. This means that you're stuck playing marginal hands out of position.

Try playing more hands in position, but more importantly, consider folding some of your marginal hands (AT, AJ, KQ) in early position. For reference - I'm playing 13.5/10.5, and my button VPIP is 20%, while my UTG VPIP is 6%.

Another thing is that your WTSD is on the high side. Your results from showdown are *very* good, but I'd still be worried that you're seeing too many showdowns. A WTSD in the mid to low 20s would be better (Your NL25 stats look better than your stats for other levels).

I finished my analysis on 10,000.

Here are the graphs, interested to hear anyone's opinions, trying to build a roll at 25NL 6 max to move up but can't get anywhere...





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slipp3ry333 - your position stats would be very helpful to analyzing your play.

I'm not a 6-max player (hope to transition to 6-max at some point, but I'm still playing NL25 FR), but it's looking like you're potentially playing too tight for this format.

Your NSD winnings indicate that you may be playing weak-tight (i.e., folding too often). Having said that, your WTSD percentage is just about where it should be.

6-max sees a lot of pots where you're heads up or 3-handed at most. This means that positional aggression is a very important tool (hence my request for your position stats).

Another interesting stat of yours is your excellent W$SD. I think you're actually running ahead of expectation on showdowns, but still, you're not coming out ahead. Looking at your NSD winnings, it looks like you're losing about $3.40/100 or almost 7 ptbb/100. This seems quite large - perhaps you're having trouble folding on the flop when you're beat? Maybe you're cold-calling raises pf too much? In any case, this is negating the value you're getting from your great hands.

Post your position stats - they'll give more insight into where your leaks may be.

Hey ulrichw, here's the positional stats, thanks for your thoughts so far

Well - your positional stats look pretty good to me; Maybe someone else can find something.

The biggest thing appears to be that you're not cashing in on your phenomenal W$SD percentages.

This could mean a few things:
1. Your non-showdown play is losing you too much money (i.e., taking failed lines too far)
2. You're not getting enough money in the pot when you're ahead.

Your red-line is definitely quite bad, so it might be worthwhile to look at that. But at the same time, winning almost 60% of the hands you're showing down, it seems your blue line should be higher.

So I think it's quite possibly a combination of the two factors.

Note that value-betting more aggressively is going to fold out more hands. This means that your W$SD is going to go down. At the same time your red line will improve. Ideally your blue line will improve, too, as the hands that you carry to showdown will win bigger pots.

Hope everything is here thats need for you to pick holes and help find any leaks etc (99% of the time play 6 max)



Be brutal, but be on topic

you need to steal a hell of a lot more, that attempt to steal number should be more than 30% and tbh probably closer to 40%.

i think you call too much when there is more value in raising/ 3betting. your vpip and pfr should be close to each other. maybe u dont understand the value of fold equity - even if u have AK, when u pick up the blinds with ace high this is a GOOD result.

most people are real nitty about calling 3bets, so therefore when someone opens in MP or CO, 3bet them light from the button - assuming there is no 50% vpip fish in the blinds.

apart from that its hard to critque your game without seeing hands

I dont really know about fold eq so i will look at that, and regarding stealing the blinds. What number is that ? So i should be raising more hands at a late position?

if theres a 3bb raise in front of me and i have pocket 5's, should i be raising that? When you say light, so you mean eg bb raises to 0.08, i raise to 0.12 and not to 0.24?

Thanks again

Yes, raise more hands late. My VPIP from the button is around 35%, and that's in tough midstakes games where people are preemptively stealing from the cutoff and the blinds defend well. At low stakes, you should be opening with anything reasonable from the button, and against nits who underdefend, opening any 2.

Whether to raise or flat with a pocket pair depends on your opponent and position. Against an aggressive button steal, I'd 3bet from the SB. Against a 50/3 drooler who never raises anything but AA and KK, just call and stack him when you hit your set.

"light" 3betting means doing so with worse hands, not the amount. 3betting a suspected stealer with J9s would be a "light" 3bet, since your hand is objectively worse than a normal 3 bet caliber hand.

I see, i must admit on the button i let alot of hands like J9s, Q10s, K10o go on the button, even if its folded around to me.

What i find happens is that people think "Hey he cant keep raising all the time and people start to call my raises, pots get big, they hit hands and i dont and i loose money)

I've only been winning money from all ins, mainly from a full house when they have a straight or flush and go all in against me. Now i know this is normall, but its pretty much the ONLY way i have been making money.

Raising AA-JJ preflop alot of the time gets folded back around to me. Been called a few times and AA is one of my biggest lossing hands, i know why its because im not folding when i should.

I guess its a form of tilt, you get annoyed because you good hands dont get paid what you would like, you see people winning decent pots with K5s and hitting a flush or two pair etc

Great input

Logie - Your sample size is really too small and is further muddled by the fact that you're combining the two levels (which throws off the $ amounts considerably).

It would be best if you collect the requested 10K hands (or something close to that) at a single level. When you have them, also post a graph with your Showdown and non-Showdown winnings.

I'd also suggest your read the stickies in the micro NL forum, and perhaps consider watching some training videos. (www.pokertrikz.com has a bunch available for no charge). Some of the things you're saying in your posts indicate that you could benefit from some more studying - particularly on the use of aggression and position.

$ amounts aren't really that significant I don't think... % is the measure I use for about everything in poker game evaluation. Am I wrong in this approach? I just don't see a need for $ related numbers...

If there are any key stats missing let me know and I'll grab them. Any help appreciated, thanks in advance.

I agree - I tend to look at cumulative $ in position - but you're right that the bb/hand stats are normalized for play level.

It's more confusing in a chart plotted against $ - but I see that Logie didn't post a chart.

Mtrip - your chart of showdown vs non-showdown winnings would be interesting/relevant, too.

It looks to me like you may be playing too passively/weakly post-flop (pre-flop looks good). Your Aggression Factor is quite low, as is your C-bet percentage. Remember that you can c-bet even if you're not last to act, as long as you were the pre-flop aggressor. I wouldn't be surprised if your red-line is a major factor in your coming out behind (the chart would confirm/refute this hypothesis).

There's a huge difference in your hand selection on the button vs. in the cutoff - I think you could afford to loosen up in the cutoff, but at the same time, you may want to tighten up on the button to keep your overall stats in the same range.

You're at the upper range for seeing showdowns, but you're winning more showdowns than you're losing, so this may not be aproblem. I suspect that may be because you're not value betting aggressively enough - if you value bet more aggressively, you'll fold out some of the weaker hands you're beating at showdown, but you may also see a better blue line as the second-best hands pay you off more.

This is the same sample as before, with a few days of play which accounts for difference in profit. Thanks again for the help, I think everything you said about my postflop passivity and disparity between my btn vs co play is spot on.

[IMG][/IMG]

Just a cooler or bad play from me!

Full Ring Cash Game (no read about villain, have played only 3 cards until now in my database): I hold 77 in late position, i raise, the player after me called.
Flop: 5h 7s 9s

And now heavy action on board. I raise, he reraise, I allin, he calls.
He holds 99

Any thoughts will be very nice if its wrong play from me!

I know red line/blue line threads are really overdone, but my situation is different to most peoples, and I can't seem to adjust my play to correct it.

My non-showdown winnings is +ve, while my showdown is -ve. They tend to cancel each other out, leaving me generally losing (this is a mix of 2NL, 5NL and 10NL);



I have a few friends who have similar charts, but they tend to do better and have a +ve green line. However the majority of winning players charts are very much the opposite - it seems the 'real' way to win is with strong showdown hands. I'm at a loss why I can't achieve this. I try to make myself more nitty, while pushing hard on hands that hit the flop, but often those hands don't reach showdown and I'm only continuing to feed the redline.

I've heard advice not to worry about this and just concentrate on the hands, but this is so upside down I must be doing something fundamentally different?

Here's my posn stats if that helps. If you want me to post some hands, what kind of situation would be useful to see?



ps I have 32k hands in my PT db, but it's only the last 17k that I tightened up and stopped playing unthinking ATC type poker!

the red line is immense man... my guess u r just calling river raises etc far far too light.

I'm a novice and I have no experience with real cash poker, but I think you have to suck out more; like call on draws sometimes. Am I right? )

no, calling is what would get u to showdown. the problem is he is getting to showdown without a great hand.

do u ever stack off with like TT/ AQ pre flop?? that cud b a problem

thanks, I am kinda proud of it, but I'd much rather be proud of the green line ;-)

level right?

No, I'm fairly conservative about preflop shoving. I'll only shove with KK,AA and AKs. Occasionally QQ to remind myself how often they get beat...

I was just trawling through my hands to find some typical examples, and I found some cases where I'd double barrel if they call my flop cbet. Maybe that's my problem;

Poker Stars $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

CO: $0.55
BTN: $1.98
SB: $3.00
Hero (BB): $3.00
UTG: $1.20
MP: $6.79

Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero is BB with T J
2 folds, CO calls $0.02, BTN calls $0.02, SB calls $0.01, Hero checks

Flop: ($0.08) 8 J 4 (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.08, CO calls $0.08, BTN folds, SB folds

Turn: ($0.24) Q (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $0.04, Hero raises to $0.50, CO calls $0.41 all in

River: ($1.14) 5 (2 players - 1 is all in)


Poker Stars $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

CO: $4.95
Hero (BTN): $9.86
SB: $4.90
BB: $1.69
UTG: $5.05

Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero is BTN with Q A
2 folds, Hero raises to $0.15, SB calls $0.13, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.35) 6 K 2 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.25, SB calls $0.25

Turn: ($0.85) 8 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.65, SB calls $0.65

River: ($2.15) 8 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

Mind you, there's other cases where I'm just hitting sets etc. I wonder if it's not that I'm seeing showdown light, but it's that I'm being over aggressive with hands that could win more at showdown.

ie I get TPTK, double barrel and they fold on the turn. If I was a bit more gentle maybe it'd be ok at showdown *and* win a bit more?

ah, I see I've been moved to the stat thread (and can't edit my posts, otherwise this would be in a post above). Since I'm here, I'll supplement the tables above with this one;



Any advice will be gratefully received!

For the AQs hand, not sure why you bother to barrel the turn. If villain is going to call a hand on the flop, he's certainly not going to let it go on a blank at the turn. Most likely he's calling with some crappy Kx, A6, or something of that variety that can't stand a lot of heat but still would like to see a showdown. Check back the turn and c/f the river if villain bets into you. You're not beating anything except a bluff here.