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Old 02-07-2012, 03:46 AM   #2726
ArtySmokes
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

FWIW, among the regs I've played FR 2NL against on Stars, not a single one has a long-term winrate of over 5bb/100. They usually move up to 5NL if they're good enough. Blackrain79 has a double-digit winrate over 2 million hands, but most of the other guys with 100K+ hands can't sustain 4bb/100 or higher, so they are "trapped" on the lowest rung of the ladder.
Here's the chart for the top 2NL winners so far this year: (includes 6max players, who tend to get higher winrates than full ring players): http://www.pokertableratings.com/sta...r/0.01-0.02-NL
Pretty grim reading, huh?
Note that only five players have a winrate of 10bb/100 or higher, and none of those has played more than 30,000 hands in 2012, so their results were most likely helped by being on the positive side of short-term variance.
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Old 02-07-2012, 09:15 AM   #2727
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

that actually makes me feel a bit better, like i said my winrate was around 18-20bb/100 for the first 10K hands, I wasn't that happy when it started dropping.
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Old 02-07-2012, 01:28 PM   #2728
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

Can someone please tell me where I can find information about every known deception technique that is employed in no limit holdem? for example check raise, smooth call, semi bluff etc.
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Old 02-07-2012, 01:36 PM   #2729
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

seven two, this is the wrong thread. I suggest the 'Official Dumb Questions Thread'.
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Old 02-07-2012, 01:50 PM   #2730
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

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seven two, this is the wrong thread. I suggest the 'Official Dumb Questions Thread'.
Thanks for your post, but don't be deceived it is actually a difficult question.
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Old 02-07-2012, 02:56 PM   #2731
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

I didn't mean any offense, but that's what the thread is called. Either way, this isn't the place for it.
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Old 02-07-2012, 04:03 PM   #2732
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

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Can someone please tell me where I can find information about every known deception technique that is employed in no limit holdem? for example check raise, smooth call, semi bluff etc.
Every single action a player can make can be used as a deception technique, with the possible exception of folding...even then we can probably squeeze that in the metagame category.
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Old 02-07-2012, 05:02 PM   #2733
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

12.5k hands of 2NL, the rest is 5NL. I know the winrate is not sustainable, I just want a quick check for leaks.


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Old 02-07-2012, 05:56 PM   #2734
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

@Sworaven: Pre-flop stats are very solid. 3-bet is a little low, but that could just be variance (not getting monsters in late position or the blinds) in the short term.
Excellent steal and fold to steal stats.
Post-flop looks great too. Someone else might spot a minor leak, but overall it looks like you've got everything running at close to optimum.
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Old 02-07-2012, 07:16 PM   #2735
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

Arty, thanks for the reply.

It's true that my 3bet is very low. I usually play 17/15 with a 3bet of about 5 or 6. This is at 10NL tho. Just finished my stake so I need to build my roll up. I thought I needed to tighten up at these stakes but I'm obviously overadjusting.
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Old 02-08-2012, 05:53 AM   #2736
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sworaven View Post
I didn't mean any offense, but that's what the thread is called. Either way, this isn't the place for it.
Thanks anyway, but I will try to ask in a thread that is for deep stacks not 1/2 limit games, as I think deception plays are not really as relevant in low limit games.
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Old 02-09-2012, 07:01 PM   #2737
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

I changed my playing style a month ago.
I have about 34k hands of NL2 + 5k of NL5. Short handed, i usually play 6 tables.

What should I fix? Thank you.







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Old 02-12-2012, 12:03 AM   #2738
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

I'm trying out 6-max instead of FR, would appreciate any pointers:



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Old 02-17-2012, 09:02 AM   #2739
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

Hi people,

My first post on this forum, will be here....

Like everybody i wanna gat better in poker especially cashgames, cause i feel there is more money to be made then in SnG's.

I play poker for about 4 years now, and i am taking it a bit more seriously for about a year.

when i play SnG's i have an ROI of about 10-15% over 3K+ sample

but now comes the thing i play on stars and i have the believe that you should work up in levels, so you don't run into a big pool of "too good of players", so i wanted to start at NL2, and move quickly up to NL5, but i can't seem to beat NL2?!!?!

I think i am running real bad so far but i am getting to a point that i am questining my own play, and i would really like some advice of you guys.

I play FR, i buy in for 100BB, and will only leave the table when there are no more fish on the table, i don't use autotopup, but if its a profitable table and i bust, the i rebuy for 100BB, as long as the fish stay.

I think i should mention is use a hud and try to use that on my opponents.

now the important stats and things,

(hold on, my HEM is crashing, have to reboot, will get edited soon)
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Old 02-17-2012, 09:36 AM   #2740
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

I am too slow (30 minute time limit for editing your messages), here is the info







I am open to any suggestions and comments, and i am sure there will be some (or a lot)

Thx for the time and effort in advance
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Old 02-17-2012, 05:01 PM   #2741
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Quick glance & question at my nooby HEM stats please!

Hello all,

Because of my many failings in the past & reckless bankroll management, I have decided to start right at the bottom and teach myself the hard way about building a roll from scratch & NOT BUSTING. I'm gonna put the hours in and make a proper go of it.
Even though I've played for a few years now I never made the sensible decision about using Holdem Manager (or equivalent) - so, I now have HEM2 on a 30 day trial and am near the end now & shall be purchasing the full version. (I'm very impressed with it!)

What I could really do with is you guys expert input on my overall stats. You'll have way more of an idea of what these numbers mean than me! I have a general idea of what they all stand for (Voluntarily Put in Pot etc), but not really sure what I should be looking to get my numbers for each stat to be, in an ideal world. As in, do they look ok / where can I improve on. I only have a relatively small sample at the moment (32k hands) - but how is this looking?:

Hands:.....31,716
bb/100:....7.55
VPIP:.......26.1
PFR:........15.6
3Bet:.......8.0
WTSD%:...25.3
W$SD%:...44.4
Agg:........3.19
Agg%:......42.0

Like I say, it's limited info I know, and I'm happy I'm winning at the moment - but before I go too far down the line it'd be handy to know if I have any glaring mistakes I can address right now, and plug the hole right now.

Thanks for reading!
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Old 02-17-2012, 06:47 PM   #2742
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

@ Ariebombarie: Your graph is like an upside down version of the graphs of most regs. There's a bit of runbad in there (your actual winnings are lower than EV in all in situations) but the most striking thing is that you're losing a ton of money at showdown. At nanostakes, playing ABC poker - where you bet your strong hands, fold your marginal hands, and rarely bluff - your blue line (money won on the river) should far exceed what you win without showdown.
So let's look at your stats and see what's going on...
Positional awareness is good, with your VPIP rising the closer you get to the button, but it's a little too high in SB, particularly as the VPIP there (31%) is a lot higher than PFR (18%). General rule in the small blind is Raise or Fold. Calling or completing when you'll be in the worst seat post-flop is not a good idea. Your overall VPIP is a little high, so start by being a bit tighter in the small blind. Raise to steal if it's folded around to you, and only call if there are multiple players in the pot and you have a pocket pair or decent suite connector (78s+).
Your 3-bet % is pretty high, and this is no doubt contributing to a lot of pots won pre-flop. When your 3-bets get called, or re-raised, you are often going to be dominated, because at 2NL, most players are only getting it in w/ JJ+ and AK. If you are 3-betting 99+ and AJ, try to do it against players that are much looser than you, so that it's always a value bet.
Your WTSD is too high at 33%. This is why you're losing money at showdown. Other players have tighter ranges, so if you see all 5 cards, they tend to have a better hand, and often have you outkicked. Tighten up a little pre-flop and don't call so many bets post-flop unless you have strong draws and good odds to chase. Dump hands like A5s if you hit the ace, but have no flush draw, as you'll get killed by AJ+. Basically, fold more often! (Try and get WTSD below 29%)
Your call 3-bet% is way too high at 61%. As I said, most players at this level are only 3-betting monster hands. If you're calling with AJ, KQo or worse, you're going to lose a lot of money against AK and JJ+.
Other stats look reasonably good, but you might want to be more careful with your c-bets, or perhaps alter your sizing. (It's impossible to know from these stats where the problem is, but your c-bet success rate of less than 50% would indicate that you're not getting enough folds on the flop, so could be choosing bad spots to c-bet, such as multiway pots, or drawy boards that you missed).

That will have to do for me for now. Feel free to ask for more info on particular issues.
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Old 02-18-2012, 07:51 AM   #2743
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

@Artysmokes, thank you for your reply, i find it very usefull.

I don't like the "view" of my graph either, and i want to flip it over the zero-line too. I expected it not to be all runbad, like you said. I also know that the money at nanostakes should come from the blue line (won at showdown) and not from the red line (won without showdown). I will try to fold more marginal hands, and will try to bluff less (especially on the river), betting and raising with good hands i think i do correct now but will track that to be sure.

thx for the pos. awareness, i already suspected (knew) that my SB VPIP was too high (leakbuster(trial) also commented on that, and i am already trying to play less in the SB, i am folding about everything equal or less then KJs, raising pockets and monsters, i do sometimes try to resteal when i guess somebody is stealing, maybe i do this to much

I have to pay more attention to the multiple players in the pot, because of the better odds then.

I will try to lower my VPIP a bit, but i also feel this is caused by the fact that i open really wide against fishes, trying to isolate them from the other regs, so i have the fish alone in the pot, nevertheless i will try to play less hand especially from the SB.

I am already trying to 3 bet less, because of the points you mentioned, when i get 4 bet i only call with KK or AA, but a lot of the times, villain has AA there and i have KK, so good point.

I prefer not to 3 bet 99, cause i have trouwbles with that hand (to commonly dominated against a 3 bett call range)

My WTSD is i guess the most important error in my play, i already don't play hand like A2s - A9s OOP, unless the villain has VPIP 50+. you are correct that i can't seem to fold the worst hand on the river and pay out way to much there, but i feel a part of the loss here is because of villains hitting there outs on the river.

my call 3 bet i will lower a lot, the problem is the many fishes which will do something like this....first villain limps, second raises to 0,04, third villain raises to 0,10, i get AQs, when the vpip/pfr is high of villain 3 i will call, and propably get tsucked out somewhere (or had the worst hand to begin with) nevertheless i will say this as "full" raises and i will tighten up my 3 bet call % range

For the c-bet succes rate i have to mention this, i have quit a few people marked with the note fold to cbet flop = 0 fold to cbet turn = 85+, then i want to get 2 streets of value so i will bet almost potsize 2 times there (unless the board could hit his range, then the cbet still comes but at about 50% of pot) this way if i am played back i am also sure that he has beat me (mostly the villains are passive in that situation) and keep the loss small

i do think you are spot on with the multiway cbet which i loose quite often i guess, i think of this now, if i make my % cbet lower by not cbetting drawy boards which i missed, i will get more respect for my "normal" cbet and the precentage should go up

Thank you very much for your view on my stats, you have definitely confirmed some of my supicions, and added a few other leaks which i will try to fix.

THX!
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Old 02-18-2012, 10:49 PM   #2744
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Re: Quick glance & question at my nooby HEM stats please!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph_Knecht View Post
Hello all,

Because of my many failings in the past & reckless bankroll management, I have decided to start right at the bottom and teach myself the hard way about building a roll from scratch & NOT BUSTING. I'm gonna put the hours in and make a proper go of it.
Even though I've played for a few years now I never made the sensible decision about using Holdem Manager (or equivalent) - so, I now have HEM2 on a 30 day trial and am near the end now & shall be purchasing the full version. (I'm very impressed with it!)

What I could really do with is you guys expert input on my overall stats. You'll have way more of an idea of what these numbers mean than me! I have a general idea of what they all stand for (Voluntarily Put in Pot etc), but not really sure what I should be looking to get my numbers for each stat to be, in an ideal world. As in, do they look ok / where can I improve on. I only have a relatively small sample at the moment (32k hands) - but how is this looking?:

Hands:.....31,716
bb/100:....7.55
VPIP:.......26.1
PFR:........15.6
3Bet:.......8.0
WTSD%:...25.3
W$SD%:...44.4
Agg:........3.19
Agg%:......42.0

Like I say, it's limited info I know, and I'm happy I'm winning at the moment - but before I go too far down the line it'd be handy to know if I have any glaring mistakes I can address right now, and plug the hole right now.

Thanks for reading!
You're stats are very similar to mine. Do you play full ring or 6max? I'm playing full ring and my vpip and pfr are the exact same. Have a decent winrate too and I'm probably the loosest player at the table. I'm playing 25PLH though and it seems to be the only cash game I can win at.

Don't know how to post results properly so here's a few stats :

25PLH FR : 34k hands

VP:25, PFR : 15.9, 3B : 6
WTSD : 28, W$SD : 51, AG : 1.9, bb/100 : 11.05

I've played about 10k of those hands the last week and I'm on a bit of a heater tbh but I've checked my versus player stats and I'm beating nearly all of the winning regs in $won between us.

I'll try post up my stats properly soon but I think I might have a good edge if I stick to playing 8 -10 tables max. I'm not losing too much non showdown either.

Any opinions Artysmokes? I'll try post my graph now :



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Old 02-19-2012, 06:21 PM   #2745
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Re: Quick glance & question at my nooby HEM stats please!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph_Knecht View Post
Hands:.....31,716
bb/100:....7.55
VPIP:.......26.1
PFR:........15.6
3Bet:.......8.0
WTSD%:...25.3
W$SD%:...44.4
Agg:........3.19
Agg%:......42.0
These are great stats, Joseph. It seems you're playing a decent aggressive style and it's leading to good results.
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Old 02-20-2012, 03:34 PM   #2746
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **



My FR stats for this month
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Old 02-20-2012, 05:10 PM   #2747
Joseph_Knecht
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Re: Quick glance & question at my nooby HEM stats please!

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulok View Post
You're stats are very similar to mine. Do you play full ring or 6max? I'm playing full ring and my vpip and pfr are the exact same. Have a decent winrate too and I'm probably the loosest player at the table. I'm playing 25PLH though and it seems to be the only cash game I can win at.

Don't know how to post results properly so here's a few stats :

25PLH FR : 34k hands

VP:25, PFR : 15.9, 3B : 6
WTSD : 28, W$SD : 51, AG : 1.9, bb/100 : 11.05

I've played about 10k of those hands the last week and I'm on a bit of a heater tbh but I've checked my versus player stats and I'm beating nearly all of the winning regs in $won between us.

I'll try post up my stats properly soon but I think I might have a good edge if I stick to playing 8 -10 tables max. I'm not losing too much non showdown either.

Any opinions Artysmokes? I'll try post my graph now :

Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Hi there,
I've been using the Table Ninja software (and loving it) so I've been able to play about 14 tables comfortably, I tend to open about 8-10 full ring and then add on a few 6-max. I'm only doing this many tables for now as I'm playing micro stakes & using position & aggression.
Funny to see the exact same stats! It'll be a while until I'm playing NL25 though. I'm just determined not to bust this time, or play higher than my roll allows me to!
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Old 02-20-2012, 05:19 PM   #2748
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Re: Quick glance & question at my nooby HEM stats please!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtySmokes View Post
These are great stats, Joseph. It seems you're playing a decent aggressive style and it's leading to good results.
Cheers Arty, I've seen a few of your posts and you seem to know your stuff, so that's reassuring to hear from you

Here's my graph for last week, which comprises of about 11k hands, all at 2NL & a bit of 5NL:

Aggresive red-line huh !!

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Old 02-20-2012, 06:47 PM   #2749
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

@Joseph_knecht Keep up the good work and you'll be playin 25nl in no time. I actually suck at no limit cash but didn't play enough hands really. For some reason I prefer pot limit.

It's good that you can play that style while 14 tabling. I'm still getting used to adding tables but will prob get table ninja soon.
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Old 02-20-2012, 07:39 PM   #2750
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulok View Post
@Joseph_knecht Keep up the good work and you'll be playin 25nl in no time. I actually suck at no limit cash but didn't play enough hands really. For some reason I prefer pot limit.

It's good that you can play that style while 14 tabling. I'm still getting used to adding tables but will prob get table ninja soon.
Cheers dude. You gotta look into Table ninja!! it's soooo good for multi-tabling, I have my tables stacked & it brings each table up when action is due, and wont bring any others in front until you've made your action. You can pre-set bet sizes too (depend on flop/turn/river), and it's all run on hot-keys from your keyboard.... simply awesome!
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