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Old 03-04-2009, 06:52 PM   #251
JoeO
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

wow thanks alot mate. really appreciate it. how did you do it by the way
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Old 03-04-2009, 07:11 PM   #252
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

Quote:
Originally Posted by jshiff View Post
Been having a little trouble finding my hold at 10nl FR
can anyone see any leaks in my game so far??
ive been killing 5nl at 11ptbb/100 and 2nl at 9ptbb/100 for the past 25k hands.
Your WTSD looks high. (Although from the graph looks like you may have adjusted a little in the last 2k hands).

Your PFR looks low for your VPIP. Raise more in position (even if there are limpers ahead), use your position post-flop. (C-bet often, particularly if you see the flop heads-up).
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Old 03-04-2009, 07:23 PM   #253
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

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wow thanks alot mate. really appreciate it. how did you do it by the way
Photobucket provides the links for you on your album page. Just cut and paste the IMG links into the text of your post.

On your stats btw: I don't really feel qualified to comment on 6-max (I'm not even really qualified to comment on FR), but it looks to me like your WTSD is high. This may mean that you're calling to much or it may mean that your bluffs are getting called too much (i.e., you're bluffing too often).

Your non-showdown winnings are very good, probably too good for the level. This means that you're aggressively pushing people out of pots. This sounds good, except that you'll also get called down every now and then and end up losing a big pot, leading to those big losses in your showdown winnings. If you look at the shape of your showdown winnings, you seem to have lost more big pots than you won.

Over-aggression causes (at least) two issues:
1. You build pots in marginal situations - you'll take down the pot often (leading to the high non-showdown winnings), but when you get called, you're often behind (leading to the losses in showdowns).
2. You lose value with your strong hands (e.g., instead of flat calling and inducing a bluff, you push your opponent out with a raise).
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Old 03-04-2009, 07:47 PM   #254
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

Could someone please explain to me how to filter HEM to show amount of times you hit a set/times hit pair on board etc? Someone mentioned a setometer filter but can't seem to find it? Cheers.
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Old 03-04-2009, 08:36 PM   #255
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

Ok, so after taking a sever beating October-January @ 10NL/25NL; I decided to start over from scratch.

I purged, and removed all hands from 5NL and up to give myself a clear state of mind. Deciding that if I'm ever to play seriously at 200NL and up I need to have a significant sample at each level, and win at that level first.

So here's my stats from 2NL, first 18k hands. I realize I'm crushing this level; and it's time to move up. But please treat me as a beginner and give me any stat info that you can.





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Old 03-05-2009, 01:46 PM   #256
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

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Originally Posted by LaRue05 View Post
Ok, so after taking a sever beating October-January @ 10NL/25NL; I decided to start over from scratch.
I wish somebody other than me was responding in this thread, too - I think I understand at least some of the stats well, but don't have enough real-world experience to back my feedback up... So take my input as some ideas of where to start looking, rather than the Gospel truth...

The stat that stands out to me is your 49% W$SD%. This is significantly lower than it should be. Surprisingly, it doesn't seem to have affected your overall results that much - maybe that means that a lot of the SD pots you lost were smaller pots.

Looking at your position stats, it seems that you have about a 30% WTSD% in early and mid. This is partially a reflection of your starting hand choices, I believe (since you're opening up your game considerably late, and thus playing more passively in those positions), but may also be an indication that you're overplaying hands OOP.

On the whole your AF is high - probably still in the acceptable range, but at a level where you need to take care not to be overaggressive. (My AF is also in this range, btw).
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Old 03-06-2009, 01:59 PM   #257
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

Hey, first time posting and I'm wondering why my non showdown winnings is so low and what I can do it change it.

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Old 03-06-2009, 05:01 PM   #258
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

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Originally Posted by Redd2600 View Post
Hey, first time posting and I'm wondering why my non showdown winnings is so low and what I can do it change it.

Non-showdown winnings are usually a sign of aggression. The more aggressive you are, the higher your non-showdown winnings. The weaker you play post-flop, the lower your non-showdown winnings (or the higher your losses).

The trick is that it's not possible to change showdown winnings and non-showdown winnings completely independently of each other. Thus you see a range of patterns for winning players - some have positive non-showdown winnings, and some who don't.

Having said that, your non-showdown winnings are quite low.

It looks to me like the biggest culprit is that you're not adjusting for position.

You're playing too many hands OOP, and not enough in position.

For my very tight 13/10 stats, I'm playing 20% of hands on the button, but only around 6% UTG.

Learn how to use position - e.g., on the button, come in with a speculative hand (say 67s) - c-bet virtually any flop into one or two opponents if they check to you. Learn to tell when opponents are likely to be weak, and bet into them even if you didn't make your hand. You'll take down many hands this way (usually small pots, but it adds up over time).

The next thing to look at is your PFR. Your PFR and your VPIP should be fairly close. If you're going to play the pot aggressively, you're best off setting the tone by raising pre-flop. This means that you'll have initiative on the flop, being able to take more pots with c-bets.
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Old 03-07-2009, 11:34 PM   #259
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

I have been trying to build my bankroll from $10 by playing 2NL and I've had some mixed results. I seem to have positive streaks followed by negative streaks. I admit I am still tilty after a loss but I am not sure if that explains my graph. Thanks for the feedback.



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Old 03-08-2009, 02:39 AM   #260
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

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Originally Posted by carrotware View Post
I have been trying to build my bankroll from $10 by playing 2NL and I've had some mixed results. I seem to have positive streaks followed by negative streaks. I admit I am still tilty after a loss but I am not sure if that explains my graph. Thanks for the feedback.
I would say your biggest leak is probably position-awareness. Your VPIP percentages are very even across the positions - there should be a much bigger difference between your opening hand selection UTG vs. on the button.

You should be changing your starting ranges more based on the position you're playing from - read up on this concept in the micro-NL forums.

The second likely leak is your 45% W$SD% - you're seeing too many showdowns and losing too many of them.

Are you bluffing a lot and getting called? Or do you believe you're getting bluffed a lot and calling, only to lose to a better hand? If you're doing either (or both of these), tone down this tendency. At 2NL, you're supposed to be playing your strong hands for value - don't bluff, and don't try to catch bluffs with marginal hands.
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Old 03-09-2009, 07:12 AM   #261
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I can't hit.

I a 17/15 TAG at 10NL. I great great cards A/Ks, A/Qs, K/Qs, and I can't hit with them. I totally hit air on the flop, or I get 2nd pair w/ a scary board. This has been going on for the last 15K hands.

I usually c-bet/fold if I completely whiff. But the way I'm running, this tilts me hard. I feel like I'm a bad player not winning with premium cards... I've lost 2-3 buy-ins every session since Thursday...

Is this standard?

Should I bluff more?
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Old 03-09-2009, 08:02 AM   #262
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Re: I can't hit.

It's okay to check/fold with missed AJ AQ AK sometimes, and sometimes to double barrel. Understand your opponent. Anyway, 15k hands is not a huge sample, so, eh.
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Old 03-10-2009, 05:22 AM   #263
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Re: I can't hit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Number1Hater View Post
I a 17/15 TAG at 10NL. I great great cards A/Ks, A/Qs, K/Qs, and I can't hit with them. I totally hit air on the flop, or I get 2nd pair w/ a scary board. This has been going on for the last 15K hands.

I usually c-bet/fold if I completely whiff. But the way I'm running, this tilts me hard. I feel like I'm a bad player not winning with premium cards... I've lost 2-3 buy-ins every session since Thursday...

Is this standard?

Should I bluff more?
I play AK all the time. And like, I dont hit anything over 67% of the time either. :-/.
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Old 03-10-2009, 11:05 PM   #264
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

hey, you guys want to see something beautiful?

Here's my 25nl 6max graph since feb 22:



and a summary:



so, ok, I suck. somehow in the preceding year I ran +14ptbb/100 at the same level, 22/15/2.4 over 21k hands (I took a break in the middle, but was +10ptbb/100 in the 10k between returning and this last month).

See any systematic problems in my stats?

(and since this is a not-very-veiled beat post, let me ask you this: Hero has AQ, villain has TT. Board is 2Q37. How many outs does villain have?

answer: all he needs)

Last edited by gedanken; 03-10-2009 at 11:14 PM.
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Old 03-10-2009, 11:13 PM   #265
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Re: I can't hit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Number1Hater View Post
I usually c-bet/fold if I completely whiff....

Is this standard?

Should I bluff more?


standard? pretty much.

should you bluff more? not if your opponents are playing back at you. If they are, slow down and make a "suspicious-looking" raise with a monster. You might need to widen your range, so you're not too easy to put on whiffed overcards.

mostly though, you just need your opponents to hit fewer flops. It's really easy to blame senseless aggression for your opponent's bets, but in reality, most bets mean what they say they mean.

Dry spells can last much longer than you think they can (AAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!), so make sure you are making smart moves at the right times, and don't automatically assume that bad results means you're doing it wrong.
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Old 03-10-2009, 11:18 PM   #266
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

Your Win @ Showdown % isn't high enough, perhaps you're going too far with hands that aren't good enough. Mine is about 60%, I'd say anything over 50% is normally good enough. Your VPIP/PFR stats are good, it's just your showdown and perhaps you're completing your SB way too much.

What are your 'Att. to Steal' stats like?

Also, ever thought you're playing too high? What are you at now?
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Old 03-11-2009, 01:44 AM   #267
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~run.it.twice View Post
Your Win @ Showdown % isn't high enough, perhaps you're going too far with hands that aren't good enough. Mine is about 60%, I'd say anything over 50% is normally good enough.
I always thought won@sd was partly an indicator of luck. I won a 1600-seat freeroll one time and my won@sd was 78%. translation: I was on fire. Right now, I'm not on fire. I kinda expected my won@sd to be lower.

Incidentally, if your won@sd stays at 60% long-term, that might indicate that you are being too nitty and are folding winners to much. Or so I was led to believe. Do I have that wrong?

[edit: my two go-to posts for w$@sd, wtsd, and w$wsf are by redjoker, brilliant stuff here and here. 60% won$ at showdown is exploitable, according him, but perhaps it's not such a bad approach to the lowest stakes.]

Quote:
What are your 'Att. to Steal' stats like?
24%

Quote:
Also, ever thought you're playing too high? What are you at now?
This is all 25nl, 6-handed. I am +35ptbb/100 over 20k hands at 2/5/10nl 6max, including +21ptbb/100 over 15k at 10nl. Like I said above, the preceding 20k at 25nl I was +14ptbb/100, so no, I don't think I'm playing over my head. I maybe have some things to sort out, but I plan to do them at 25nl. Bankroll is not an issue.

I'm honestly starting to wonder if the nanostakes taught me a bunch of bad habits (I'm showing down too much?), but I'm obviously getting a horrible run of cards lately, and don't want to adjust things that aren't actually broken.

Last edited by gedanken; 03-11-2009 at 01:58 AM.
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Old 03-11-2009, 01:33 PM   #268
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

Quote:
Originally Posted by gedanken View Post
I always thought won@sd was partly an indicator of luck. I won a 1600-seat freeroll one time and my won@sd was 78%. translation: I was on fire. Right now, I'm not on fire. I kinda expected my won@sd to be lower.

Incidentally, if your won@sd stays at 60% long-term, that might indicate that you are being too nitty and are folding winners to much. Or so I was led to believe. Do I have that wrong?
I think you have that right. A player with that high a W$SD is probably losing opportunities in non-showdown pots as well (it could be an indicator of not bluffing enough, since the times that the bluffs get called and end up shown down should reflect in a lower W$SD).

Quote:
Originally Posted by gedanken View Post
[...]
I'm honestly starting to wonder if the nanostakes taught me a bunch of bad habits (I'm showing down too much?), but I'm obviously getting a horrible run of cards lately, and don't want to adjust things that aren't actually broken.
Thanks for the links. The ranges recommended as "good" values for WTSD and W$SD are wider than I expected.

Nonetheless, I'm thinking your assessment is correct - you're showing down too much. A W$SD of less than 50% means that you have to be really good at managing the pot-size relative to the strength of your hands - you'll have to be winning larger pots than you're losing to stay ahead.

30.6% WTSD seems to be quite high, as well (and probably relates to your lowish W$SD).

I'd definitely recommend slowing down a little post-flop; particularly trying to get better reads on whether you're ahead or behind.
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Old 03-15-2009, 04:53 AM   #269
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Review my play - 9,5k hands

This is basicly my poker lifetime graph, and I don't think i need like 1000 more hands to get a review, cause it's more like another 30k to see where i stand. I just wan't to hear some rough estimates about my game. btw. I started 4 tabling just recently so my hands number per day will be bigger.

Position:




Summary:

The only real winner here is PokerStars. altough I'm proud at my NL50 rake.



Garph:

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Old 03-15-2009, 05:27 AM   #270
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Re: Review my play - 9,5k hands

It looks like you have no idea what the importance of position is.

I would recommend getting a book like "Getting Started in Hold EM" (Ed Miller).
(pretty much every poker book will talk about the importance of position anyways).

There are also thousand of articles on the web and these forums on the subject.
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Old 03-15-2009, 05:48 AM   #271
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Re: Review my play - 9,5k hands

Yep, your main problem seems to be understanding position. You should be playing (and raising) a lot more hands when in position. Your VPIP/PFR stats are pretty much the same for all positions except the blinds. You should be playing fewer hands in early position and more hands in late position. Your PFR stat should also be a bit closer to your PFR, you want to be raising more often when you decide to enter a pot.
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Old 03-15-2009, 05:55 AM   #272
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Re: Review my play - 9,5k hands

Can you guys post your position stats so I can see how it should look like?

It's just kinda complicated to remember what cards should I check/fold/raise in certain position. I guess it will come with time.
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Old 03-15-2009, 08:57 AM   #273
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

Hello, I just played 20k hands and I would appreciate some feedback about my stats, so you can't point out for me what can possibly be leak in my play.


For the position stats - I played first thouusand of hands 9 handed .. then i switched and majority of hands are 6 max.

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Old 03-15-2009, 01:48 PM   #274
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

Hm isn't there something wrong that I have so negative winning with "pair"?
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Old 03-17-2009, 05:16 AM   #275
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leaks over 22k hands at 10nl, 5n, 2nl

I've been reading 2+2 for a few months, one of the things im most guilty of is never looking at my hand histories/reading interesting hand histories posted on 2+2. I do read a ton of the "in the wells", and interesting stickies in the unL forum along with anthology posts that have a ton of really cool concepts that help me somewhat. I think my main problem is I don't really know where my game is at so I can't really apply much of what I learn on 2+2 untill I realize what I'm doing wrong. So I was wondering if someone could look at my pt3 details, and point out some obvious leaks. I'd also like some advice to where to start out on relearning poker as I feel like I need to start on a clean slate, and relearn everything I know or dont know about poker.

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