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** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

11-29-2011 , 02:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by canon1
so what I can do is 3bet a little bit less? what does the "river call efficiency"? means? when i check the "river efficity net$" it is on +XX$ is that bad?
(1) Just 3-bet for value for starters. Gradually add bluffy spots against, for example, villains that have really high button steal%, because they're folding anyway.
(2) "River call efficiency$" being >0 means you won money by making river calls, which is obv positive. "River call efficiency" is a fairly complex formula to indicate how good your river calls are (full details on HEM site). Basically, if it's below 2, you're making a lot of bad river calls.
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
11-29-2011 , 02:18 PM
exxcellent: The stats you show are mostly preflop stuff, with very little postflop stats.
That's a pity, because your preflop stats are quite good, if extremely tight.
Your postflop stats clearly are not alright, even if there's very little of them I can see. What I see is a classic example of a weak-tight nit.
(1) Your WTSD% is on the low side of the spectrum, but OK.
(2) Your W$SD% is very high. That might sound good (you win a lot of showdowns!), but it's not. Unless you are clairvoyant, you are clearly folding the winning hand a lot of the time.
(3) Because of that, your W$WSF% (Won When Saw Flop) is pathetically low. You are an extremely tight preflop player. This means that on average, you will generally have the best hand when the flop comes. Because everyone else is playing much worse hands than you. So you should be winning most of the times you see a flop, 50% or so. You aren't even winning 40% of the time. If you played aggressively postflop, you should win about 20-25% more pots.

Since you aren't showing your postflop aggression percentages and aggression factor, I can't judge on them. But I'm guessing your AF is below 3, and your aggression% is below 40%. That is, way too low.
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
11-29-2011 , 02:20 PM
River Call Efficiency is essentially your ROI on calls on the river - it's the amount you win by calling divided by the amount it cost you to call. Multiply it by 100 and that will give you your ROI for river calls as a percentage.

You want your RiverCallEfficiency to be positive (otherwise you're going too far when beat and/or calling river bets too often), but not too positive (as that indicates you're not playing your good hands aggressively enough on previous streets and/or not raising for value on the river often enough). There's quite a lot of different opinion on the correct value for it, but it seems to be somewhere in the range 1.0 (game theoretic if you're randomising your calls) to 2.5 (good reading skills, exploitative, good pot control).

Last edited by gothninja; 11-29-2011 at 02:30 PM.
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
11-29-2011 , 02:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fabadam
exxcellent: The stats you show are mostly preflop stuff, with very little postflop stats.
That's a pity, because your preflop stats are quite good, if extremely tight.
Your postflop stats clearly are not alright, even if there's very little of them I can see.
hi thanks for your input, i would like to really analyse my post flop plays too. can i know what stats would be interesting to look at post flop?
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
11-29-2011 , 06:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by exxcellent
hi thanks for your input, i would like to really analyse my post flop plays too. can i know what stats would be interesting to look at post flop?
Most important are AF (Aggression Factor) and Aggr%, both total and by street. Also fold-tobet% and check-raise% somewhat.
There's tons more. Look at the Articles in the Help section of HEM.
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
12-01-2011 , 04:40 PM


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This year.. I guess im doing something horribly wrong! Please someone heeeelp! hehe

Last edited by youri911; 12-01-2011 at 05:01 PM.
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
12-01-2011 , 05:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gothninja
Yeah - you're not cropping the image properly.

Seriously though - it looks like you're playing too passively when you've got a hand and getting pushed off pots too often. Hard to tell without actual stats though.

Edit: oh wait - I can see stats now...
You can click the text above the pics to enlarge them
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
12-01-2011 , 05:10 PM
You're playing very tight and not 3betting often. It seems you're only 3betting with premium hands (~3% = AA,KK,QQ,AK) which means you're very easy to read.
You're calling in the big blind far too often, and then check-calling to the river too often.
Your aggression could be higher - especially on the flop, considering how tight you're playing pre-flop. Given your tightness, you should be cbetting the flop more often - 50% is far too low if you're only playing very good hands.

In short - it looks as if you're not bluffing very often and playing quite passively. You need to include some bluffs throughout your game otherwise you are easy to read and exploit. This is supported by your graph, which shows you have the goods often when you get to showdown, but are often bullied off of pots you have invested in before showdown.
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
12-01-2011 , 05:13 PM
Yes also.. i have missed all my draws for the last 10k hands. and i hardly ever bluffed since i learned its not advised on this level. Thanks for info!
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
12-01-2011 , 05:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by youri911
Yes also.. i have missed all my draws for the last 10k hands
That doesn't help
Maybe you are chasing draws by calling too often with the wrong odds too? You need wider ranges and more aggression in your game I think.

Quote:
and i hardly ever bluffed since i learned its not advised on this level. Thanks for info!
Every hand (apart from the nuts) has some amount of bluff in it. If you just play the nuts, other players will just stay out of your way every time you show any aggression. Or worse, they can play knowing exactly what you hold. That way you win small pots and lose big ones (because your opponents are only continuing when they know they have your AA-QQ,AK beat).
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
12-01-2011 , 06:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gothninja
That doesn't help
Maybe you are chasing draws by calling too often with the wrong odds too? You need wider ranges and more aggression in your game I think.


Every hand (apart from the nuts) has some amount of bluff in it. If you just play the nuts, other players will just stay out of your way every time you show any aggression. Or worse, they can play knowing exactly what you hold. That way you win small pots and lose big ones (because your opponents are only continuing when they know they have your AA-QQ,AK beat).
\



Hey thanks for taking the time to reply to me.
I calculate the odds while playing so that cant be the problem... often i call an open ended straight draw bet with correct ods and miss it so i have to fold turn bets.. also i think i am overplaying tptk hands..
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
12-01-2011 , 06:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by youri911
i hardly ever bluffed since i learned its not advised on this level. Thanks for info!
There are bluffs and bluffs.

A c-bet is often a "bluff" in that you may be able to get the better hand to fold but it's still a routine play. For example, if you open UTG with AQ, a nitty player calls on the button and the flop comes K92 rainbow, you may well make a c-bet. His range includes a lot of pocket pairs which are ahead of you but he will often fold if he didn't get a set because he has no idea what you have and there are two overcards on the board.
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
12-01-2011 , 07:31 PM
youri: Try c-betting more often. Only betting 55% of flops when you raised pre-flop is too passive. If you didn't make a pair, but have overcards, gutshots and backdoor flush draws, a c-bet of about 60% pot on anything but the scariest boards succeeds pretty often while not costing you much. If you get called but gain some outs on the turn, you can fire again.
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
12-01-2011 , 07:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtySmokes
youri: Try c-betting more often. Only betting 55% of flops when you raised pre-flop is too passive. If you didn't make a pair, but have overcards, gutshots and backdoor flush draws, a c-bet of about 60% pot on anything but the scariest boards succeeds pretty often while not costing you much. If you get called but gain some outs on the turn, you can fire again.
Thanks again arty!
Where would this community be without you, haha!
Will look for more spots...
IF anyone can see more i should work on or look into.. feel free to shout.
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
12-01-2011 , 07:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by youri911
Hey thanks for taking the time to reply to me.
I calculate the odds while playing so that cant be the problem... often i call an open ended straight draw bet with correct ods and miss it so i have to fold turn bets.. also i think i am overplaying tptk hands..
I wonder if you are making a common mistake and calculating odds on the flop based on two cards to come and then re-evaluating on the turn (you should be using 2x the number of outs if you're re-evaluating after one card, not 4x)? I mean, it is very unlikely your opponent is betting small enough to give you the right odds to draw an OESD with one card.

Also, if you make a habit of calling the flop and folding the turn, people will notice and will always double-barrel you whatever they have.

Last edited by gothninja; 12-01-2011 at 07:46 PM.
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
12-01-2011 , 07:49 PM
x4 on the flop x2 on the turn you mean that rule?

i know that also i use a chart with definite odds

Last edited by youri911; 12-01-2011 at 07:54 PM.
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
12-01-2011 , 07:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by youri911
x4 on the flop x2 on the turn you mean that rule?
Yes. But the rule is 2x with one card to come, 4x with 2 cards to come. You only use 4x when you will definitely see both cards without any more decisions (eg, calling an all-in). If you're on the flop and will re-evaluate on the turn, then you're only going to see one card before you have to make another decision - so you need to use 2x.

A lot of people misunderstand this rule.

If you're using 4x on the flop with chips behind and another decision to come after the next card then that's a big leak. And, like I said before, your opponents will notice what you're doing and will always bet the turn. I certainly will!

Another thing I'm thinking is that you should think about position and try not to play too many hands when you have to act before your opponent (out of position) on the flop, turn and river. If you have position (ie, you act after your opponents) then you have more information on which to act because you get to see what your opponents do first, and you can control the hand better. When out of position it is a lot harder to know where you are in the hand, and a lot harder to get paid when you're ahead.

Last edited by gothninja; 12-01-2011 at 08:01 PM.
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12-01-2011 , 07:58 PM
Maybe i am taking this to the extrem a bit then, i almost always use this on oesd aswell as flush draws and overs or oesd with overs...
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
12-01-2011 , 08:10 PM
Maybe taking the implied part a bit over the top i will look into this.
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
12-01-2011 , 08:14 PM
If you're going to call on the flop with a draw, that can be OK. But you usually can't do that only to hope to hit your draw. You need a good proportion of other plans too to pay for your call. Sometimes, if the board texture is right, you need to bet or check-raise the turn as a bluff to keep your opponents guessing about what you have.
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
12-03-2011 , 02:39 AM
my red line is ridiculously -


Any ideas? I have a million leaks I'm unsure of, what do I need to show you guys to see where the leaks are at? 6bb/100 at FR but BE at SH. I have HM2/PT3. How many hands do you guys need?
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
12-03-2011 , 04:48 AM
Hey guys, Currently beating 2nl. Just wanted a heads up on how im going, any input would be great thanks. I know its not a huge sample but any points to improve my game would be awsome!

Jamie

** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
12-03-2011 , 05:24 AM
You need a bigger sample i.e. 10K and get your stats from decent software such as HEM or PT3. Your PRF/VPIP are a bit too far apart and probably too loose for full ring. Also, you are probably on a heater.
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
12-03-2011 , 05:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Beer
get your stats from decent software such as HEM or PT3.
Looks like this is HoldemManager 2.
** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread ** Quote
12-03-2011 , 05:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fabadam
Looks like this is HoldemManager 2.
Seriously?

OK sorry OP, wait for 10K hands and include a lot more info.
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