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Old 02-28-2009, 07:37 PM   #226
cause'n'effect
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Re: Just cannot be 'good' at 10nl

I'm not an expert at 10NL, but I've been doing ok since I started, so I'll give you what I think, even though I'm useless at reading graphs.

It seems to me that the greatest battle here is with yourself. I use the word "battle" intentionally, because you use it in your own post. Poker is not a battle at these stakes, it's like fishing. You wait for the right moment, and, when your fish is hooked, you reel it in. Valuebet, with the odds, and you'll be ok.

Are you continuation betting in the right places? Are you bluffing too much for these stakes? And have you read Professional NLHE V.1? I've only been playing NL for about a month or so, but I've found it invaluable. Also, I may be wrong, but it looks like you are completing from SB, finding yourself out of position, and losing a chunk of cash. And you should always raise first in - are you calling too much?
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Old 02-28-2009, 07:43 PM   #227
cause'n'effect
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Re: Just cannot be 'good' at 10nl

How many tables are you playing at the same time, btw?
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Old 02-28-2009, 08:29 PM   #228
stjae
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Pokertrackerstats

ok i know, stats dont mean taht much and it is better to post hands, but i just want to hear a quick answer if my stats going in the wrong direction or are they totaly out of line...
VP$ip 22
PFR 13
AF 2
AFQ 39
att to steal 27
fold bb st steal 66
fold sb to steal 82

cheers
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Old 02-28-2009, 08:35 PM   #229
Waingro
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Re: Just cannot be 'good' at 10nl

You seem pretty passive postflop. Whenever you flop a marginal made hand you perhaps try to show it down instead of valuebetting it? You might also try and doublebarrell good draws. And play less hands utg and from the blinds.
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Old 03-01-2009, 01:17 AM   #230
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

Hi guys, I hope i pick up the right thread

Just got kicked in the ass twice at 10NL... I played there with no previous experience...

Went back to 2NL (thanks FT), so I could practice and make experiments without going busto...

This is the February graph...

Never asked stuff like that but I kind to need to know that I'm getting it right...

According to this graph I'm playing good but running bad... is that correct?




Thanks for your help...
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Old 03-01-2009, 05:23 PM   #231
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

Here's me, overall. I have been reading GinaSD's thread Building a BR from $35 and decided to muck around in 2NL a bit again (that's the small uptick at the end of the graph, prolly a bit of positive variance in my favor):







Any thoughts and/or suggestions are appreciated.
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Old 03-01-2009, 10:34 PM   #232
razldazl
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My First Graph...



I assume this means im playing way to bluffy ?

Heres some stats
Hands=3698 $= -43 BB/100 -11 VPIP=26.3 PFR=19.6 3bet%=10.6

WTSD%=36 AGG%=35.9 w$SD=43.2 AGG=2.58

Any comments?
Thanks
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Old 03-01-2009, 11:04 PM   #233
iNguyen90
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Re: My First Graph...

I take it you're playing 2NL ($0.01/$0.02) ?

You're seeing too many flops for 2NL in my opinion, tighten up a little and play ABC Poker at these stakes. Don't ever bluff at 2NL either, it's not worth it, they'll call you down with anything so unless you have top pair, (or you have a read), don't be trying to kick other out of the pot with 3rd button or air.

Your 3bet is also pretty high for 2NL, most don't particularly understand what 3betting is and they just see it as a chance to get paid off if they're K6o hits on the flop. Only 43% winrate at the showdown, I was battering 2NL @ ~60%, so you need to stop getting yourself in at the showdown with poor kickers or like I said, 2nd/3rd button. In brief;
  • Tighten Up
  • Don't bluff
  • AJ, KJ and QJ aren't premium hands.
  • If you sense you're beat, fold.
  • AK is a drawing hand, don't play it too strongly.
  • Take notes on opponents.
  • Don't play big hands with small kickers.
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Old 03-01-2009, 11:11 PM   #234
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Re: My First Graph...

If you sense you're beat, fold.


+1
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Old 03-02-2009, 12:01 AM   #235
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Re: My First Graph...

1) Love your pre-flop stats, prob bc they're similar to mine, but b/c we're somewhat looser and much more aggro preflop, we have to play quite tightly to raises/aggression later in the hand, since we are often in with marginal hands.

2) Looks like you're not aggressive enough post-flop.

3) You're going to showdown roughly 10% too much iirc.

4) Your W$SD is far too low.

5) From all this it seems you're calling down way too much and/or trying to bluff on later streets when 2nl players simply aren't going to fold. Try giving up weaker hands to flop/turn raises. At this level, people can't really outplay you if you play solid post-flop poker, so just stick so solid hands and have a plan on the flop, ie don't call a flop raise if you're just going to fold to any reasonable turn bet, just give it up on the flop.
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Old 03-02-2009, 01:58 AM   #236
razldazl
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Re: My First Graph...

Wow thanks alot for the quick responses i can see this forum in being a great tool on my road to poker sucsess.

Fyi. those hands are from 10nl

thanks again
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Old 03-02-2009, 02:44 AM   #237
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

randompokerguy:

You need to raise a wider range of hands. 7% PFR in 6-max probably makes you too predictable. There's no specific magic number but you should lean towards having a PFR about 2/3 your VPIP if you're playing TAG.

Doesn't seem like you got a solid grasp of position at all. How can you be VPIP'ing 30% on the SB while only playing 19% on the BTN? You're obviously completing the SB way too much - remember you'll be playing out of position on every street if you're on the SB. Tighten up your range in UTG and the blinds, widen up the button. On the button you should be raising nearly every time with any hand with decent showdown value (suited connectors, Axs, etc) if you're opening - stealing blinds will account for a huge part of your winrate. Don't be afraid to steal from the SB against a tightwad BB - keep exploiting opponents until they adapt to you.

And it seems you might be over aggro postflop in the wrong spots.

I suggest you grab yourself a book like Small Stakes Holdem and read read read.

Last edited by mug3n; 03-02-2009 at 02:54 AM.
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Old 03-02-2009, 07:30 AM   #238
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

mug3n: I'm playin NLFR. And I thought SSHE was for limit?

The rest of your observations are kinda spot on. I complete alot in 8-limper pots with one gappers and small PPs.
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Old 03-02-2009, 11:30 AM   #239
mug3n
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

It doesn't really matter, SSHE is going to teach you a lot of fundamentals that are essential regardless in LHE or NLHE. For that matter I thought Getting Started in Hold'em was a great book early on when I played even though it's also mainly a limit book.

But if you must get a NL cash book, Harrington on Cash then go to Professional NLHE V1 by Miller. All great cash game books. PNLHE assumes you know a lot of the basics already though so I suggest HoC which are easier reads.

Okay, now I see you play FR eheh. Most of what I said probably still apply though. 18/7 probably is a bit transparent and you need to be more aggressive postflop (you can still play around that range of hands, I mean 18% VPIP is OK for FR). Don't be afraid to 3bet, raise often rather than open limping, etc.
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Old 03-02-2009, 12:58 PM   #240
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Re: My First Graph...

Quote:
Originally Posted by razldazl View Post
Wow thanks alot for the quick responses i can see this forum in being a great tool on my road to poker sucsess.

Fyi. those hands are from 10nl

thanks again
razl: You should post your position stats in addition to the graph (see randompokerguy's post).

I'm no expert - I'm currently playing NL25 FR with a winning record over 5000 hands (tiny sample size). But I think I've learned a fair amount about the game, so may be able to add some useful info...

Here's my two cents' worth: Your non-showdown winnings are very good. Unfortunately your showdown winnings (losses) are bad. This probably means two things:
1. You're overplaying your weak hands.
2. You're missing value on your strong hands, by forcing out weaker hands which might have called a smaller bet.

Your WTSD is way too high. I think a typical number for a winning player is in the low twenties.

You might want to try toning down your VPIP, too. I think you're just getting yourself in trouble right now. You can open up again once you've established a solid winning game.

If you're going to play weak starting hands, do so only from the button and the cutoff.

Based on your stats, I think your biggest issue may not be bluffing too much, but rather calling too much. (That's my biggest issue, I believe). How are you getting to showdown so frequently - are your opponents calling you, or are you calling them?
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Old 03-02-2009, 01:16 PM   #241
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

Quote:
Originally Posted by randompokerguy View Post
mug3n: I'm playin NLFR. And I thought SSHE was for limit?

The rest of your observations are kinda spot on. I complete alot in 8-limper pots with one gappers and small PPs.
See my previous disclaimer: (Not an expert, playing 25 NLFR)

If you're playing FR (Full ring) how come your stats only show 6 positions?

I would be interested in seeing your graph with showdown winnings and non-showdown winnings broken out.

I'm guessing that they're both negative.

Non-showdown winnings get better by playing aggressively in position - you win pots by c-betting most flops with most of your range. And because/if you're almost always raising when you enter the pot (like you should), you're going to get paid off well by "fit or fold" opponents.

Your showdown earnings will get better too if you play position better: Don't play marginal hands in early position - you're going to get caught not knowing where you are. Play only your strongest hands early and middle (except possibly for low-mid pocket pairs) - save the speculative hands for the late positions. Know when to give up (don't go broke on top pair).

Definitely read a good NL book (I don't agree w. Mug3n's advice to read a limit book - the game's too different because NL is all about implied odds and aggression. Limit sees a lot more showdowns, so it's much more about getting your money in good.) I like Harrington.
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Old 03-02-2009, 02:16 PM   #242
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

TBH, most of these hands come from a period when I was splashing around and didn't know much about which hands to play when. I just thought I was god's gift to poker and didn't really pay much attention to position or anything like that. So I found myself in the position of thinking that everything is due to suckouts etc. I stopped playing cash for about a year and concentrated on SNGs (not that I know much about them either, but I'm profitable and have a positive ROI on Sharkscope, go ahead and look if you like lol).

I'm not sure why it only shows six positions, maybe HEM mixes six max in with FR? I just imported all this stuff into Holdem Manager and I'm still learning how to manipulate it. I didn't think to click the Showdown Winnings box at first, so hear you go (I was suprised to see the NSD number is positive, no explanation for that...):

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Old 03-02-2009, 04:23 PM   #243
mug3n
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

HEM shows 6 positions because it groups the first few positions under "early" and "middle". I see it now. Hmm.
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Old 03-02-2009, 09:45 PM   #244
ulrichw
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

Quote:
Originally Posted by randompokerguy View Post
I'm not sure why it only shows six positions, maybe HEM mixes six max in with FR? I just imported all this stuff into Holdem Manager and I'm still learning how to manipulate it. I didn't think to click the Showdown Winnings box at first, so hear you go (I was suprised to see the NSD number is positive, no explanation for that...):
I think mug3n's explanation is correct. Now that he mentions it, I think I've heard this explanation before.

w.r.t., your graph: So much for my previous guess - your nsd winnings are quite positive - that means that you're playing aggressively - possibly too much so for 2NL. The winning graphs I've seen at 2NL are often even or slightly negative for NSD winnings.

From this graph, your big leak definitely seems to be what you're getting to showdown with. You may be building large pots with marginal holdings (which are getting shown down). Or you may be calling too many hands.

I think you may benefit from playing more carefully postflop. Your NSD earnings will suffer, but your SD winnings will hopefully more than make up for it.

But your first priority is adjusting your starting ranges more for position and possibly toning them down a bit.

For comparison: I'm at 13.36/10.52/3.26.

My VPIP's 5-6% from early, 8-10% middle, 14.8% hj, 18.3% co, 21.9% button. (11.5% in BB, 18.3% in SB)

My Went to SD is 21.24%, and Won$ at SD is 55.56%

Unfortunately I only have 5000 hands, so my long-term winrate isn't established (it's currently around 5 BB/100).
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Old 03-02-2009, 10:51 PM   #245
Jezza88
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

i tried to download HEM but it doesn't work on my stupid mac... anyone have a program that goes with a mac?

edit - used forum search and think i have found one

this one is dead http://www.pokercopilot.com/
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Old 03-03-2009, 12:36 AM   #246
jshiff
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

Been having a little trouble finding my hold at 10nl FR
can anyone see any leaks in my game so far??
ive been killing 5nl at 11ptbb/100 and 2nl at 9ptbb/100 for the past 25k hands.

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Old 03-03-2009, 01:56 AM   #247
randompokerguy
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

Jezza: have you tried those MS emulation programs for macs?
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Old 03-04-2009, 05:38 PM   #248
JoeO
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

Hey

These are my first 10k hands at 25NL. Hasnt been to great. Tilted off a bunch around 9,000 which did'nt help my winrate at all. Also i was wondering why my red line is higher then my blue line. As i thought that Showdown winnnings is where you make your most money in uNL. Any advice wold be great as ive got a few weeks off soon where i really want to knuckle down and move up a limit.







im not sure if these have worked as i dont know how to post pictures so if it hasnt if a mod could sort it out then thanks alot.
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Old 03-04-2009, 06:26 PM   #249
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

*** sake why wont it work
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Old 03-04-2009, 06:49 PM   #250
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeO View Post
Hey

These are my first 10k hands at 25NL. Hasnt been to great. Tilted off a bunch around 9,000 which did'nt help my winrate at all. Also i was wondering why my red line is higher then my blue line. As i thought that Showdown winnnings is where you make your most money in uNL. Any advice wold be great as ive got a few weeks off soon where i really want to knuckle down and move up a limit.






im not sure if these have worked as i dont know how to post pictures so if it hasnt if a mod could sort it out then thanks alot.
FYP
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