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Old 12-09-2008, 08:13 AM   #1
OziBattler
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** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

welcome to the beginners stats thread.

Im starting this thread for 2 main reasons, the second being more important than the first.
1. So that people dont have to start a new thread to ask people to comment on their stats
2. So that we will (hopefully) have a high quality thread which will allow readers to see stats and comments of others which makes it easier to see trends etc in the comments so the reader can relate them to their own stats. If this thread goes as i hope then it will actually reduce the number of stat posts as people who want to post stats will read this thread and not need to post their stats anymore.

The plan is that this thread will be able to be used as a decent reference for stats. Accordingly, the Beginner forum Moderators reserve the right to delete/edit crappy posts from it that do not add value. Also expect new threads on stats to either be merged with this one or closed as applicable.

Notes to anyone wanting to post their stats:
1. Be sure to make sure you have AT LEAST 10k hands in your stats. Posting screenshots of PokerTracker/HoldemManager/Other is recommended. Try any include whatever you feel necessary...look at previous posts in this thread as a guide.
2. Ideally each post will get their own 15 minutes of fame in this thread and to keep this thread readable, if someone else just posted their stats then consider waiting for the discussion of their stats to die down so that we dont have too many concurrent threads going in this thread.
3. Want to see other stat posts? Use 2+2 search engine to search for '+stat -Re', select 'Subject Only within forum of choice for last 2 years
4. Understand that stats are just numbers and you cant find all leaks by looking at them...this is why some people think stats posts are not that useful. They can be useful but understand that nothing beats actually getting involved in the forum and replying to strategy posts/hands. This forum helps people who helps themselves. i can tell you to play more hands in late position and to raise more preflop but unless you get involved in the forums you wont get any feedback on if you are picking the right spots.
5. When you ask for comments on your stats you are likely to get some blunt comments. This is expected so try and take each comment based on its merit.
6. Lets restrict this to NL holdem 6max and full ring. Post limit in the limits stats thread, post HU elsewhere.

Notes to anyone who wants to comment on stats:
1. Im fully aware that some people dont like stats threads and that some say not to worry about stats but the reality is that there are posters who want stats threads so they do have a place in this forum so basically if you dont like stat posts then dont post in this thread
2. feel free to notify mods then direct people to this thread if they want their stats anaylsed


Well thats about it. Lets make this thread a quality one so that it serves as a great stats reference.

Ozi




Last edited by Cry Me A River; 03-17-2009 at 02:17 AM.
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Old 12-09-2008, 08:23 AM   #2
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

First



Also here is a link to reviewing stats from the uNL FR
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/78...thread-158015/
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Old 12-09-2008, 09:45 AM   #3
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

Ok.. looks like i`ll be going first.

I have been working my way up from 2NL and have not long moved up to 10NL and generaly play 2 tables sometimes 3-4.... but mostly 2.

So if anyone can see any stats that dont look right then please let me know, or if you need to see anything else i`ll upload the pics.


ok... so let the games begin.




General stats:



By Position:



Graph:
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Old 12-09-2008, 10:11 AM   #4
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

TVI you beat me to it lol i cant work out how to upload the pics but will at a later date

Well for a quick glance i can tell you that you dont have a great PTBB/100 But i wouldnt worry to much about this just yet, of course you want to improve that but by plugging a few leaks i think you will get this done. A good winrate is around 5PTBB

Your c-bet is 66% which i think is a little small, when playing with your HUD, any player that has ~80%+ Fold to c-bet ill fire nearly ATC. Players with a low fold% i dont c-bet unless i have a hand, also when you do have a hand watch and see how often these players will fold to a second barrel. I have come across many players at NL10 who never fold to c-bet but fold lots to 2nd Barrels, when you spot this, it is better than a high fold to c-bet as they are giving you 2 streets of value with semi-bluffs etc. Take notes and exploit the hell out of these players.

I will try and look at your stats a little more later when i get the chance
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Old 12-09-2008, 10:36 AM   #5
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

I'll start, then.

First off, I'm only at 25NL myself, so I'm no authority. If any of the more experienced posters see anything wrong in what I say, please do correct me, as I hope this might be learning experience for me as well.

I like your VPIP/PFR. Pretty solid TAG stats, but I do think that an overly low VPIP/PFR ratio might not be optimal, but it's pretty close. I prefer something like 19/15.5, or 18/14.5. From the article on HEM, it shows that having VPIP and PFR too close can stunt your winrate a little bit, and I imagine it's because you might not be getting the maximum value you can be from weak tight opponents. This is just a personal thing; I said the same in another thread.

Your AF is too low, however. c/c for value is a move that I highly prize, and thus my AF is also quite low for standards, but I think you should be aiming for 3 or 3.5 at least. 4 would be quite good.

Your 3bet% is good, but I think you can notch it up a little bet to the 5.5-6.5 range. What is your 3bet range? Do you squeeze with speculative hands? Do you 3bet light, and how often?

Do you ever 3bet: KQs, AQs, AJs, TT, JJ for value?

Your W$SD is excellent, but despite this your winrate isn't huge. Don't get me wrong, 2ptbb/100 isn't bad at all, but if you look at your graph, your non showdown winnings is negative. This leads me to believe that you may be weak tight at spots and missing some good double barrel or c/r spots. Pity your stats don't show C/R because it's quite a useful stat as well.

In fact, I think this is probably your major "leak", as your stats all look otherwise fine. You might not be bluffing as often as you should, and by "bluffing" I really mean bluffing with what is probably the best hand most of the time. Non showdown winnings usually don't count too much, but it does add up. Imagine just .5 to 1.5 ptbb/100 you can add just by having a break even NSD winning.

From the positional charts, I think you might be flat calling from the blinds a bit too much. I far prefer cold calling on the button and miss a value raise than cold calling in the blinds with a marginal hand. I iso and squeeze widish in those positions because 3bet pots will be played more straightforward and it will be +EV for you as the aggressor, especially if you play generally tight.

That's all I can think of at the moment. Hope this helped.

edit: oops I got beat to it.

I agree, cbet can be notched up a little; I didn't realize that the stat was cbet percentage. I don't use PT3. About villain's fold to cbet... I think the stat is only useful after you have a large amount of hands, so it's not going to matter too much. AF, history, and board texture will be key. I will say though that my C-Bet is around 80% (a tad too much), which keeps my NSD winnings up.
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Old 12-09-2008, 10:46 AM   #6
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

Ro I assume it means c-bet% im guessing the 2 of them are c-bet% and fold to c-bet. Also as Ro said, loads of history before you start really using HUD. And players who consistantly c-bet are easy to float IP. Take advantage of this. One thing iv only started doing myself is taking notes on players. If you find something on a player take a note, if hes passive with draws, semi-bluffs with draws, chases draws at any price. You may see solid[ish] stats and notice he chases draws, charge him for it.
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Old 12-09-2008, 10:58 AM   #7
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

Thanks for the reply guys, much apreciated!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoSeeker View Post
Your 3bet% is good, but I think you can notch it up a little bet to the 5.5-6.5 range. What is your 3bet range? Do you squeeze with speculative hands? Do you 3bet light, and how often?

Do you ever 3bet: KQs, AQs, AJs, TT, JJ for value?
.
Yeah i`ll sometimes 3-bet those hands but not too often.



I think i have a negative non-showdown because sometimes i just dont know where i stand in a hand.

I raise the button and get called by the BB... i c-bet flop, he cc. i c-bet turn he c/c.... then he donks for more than pot/shoves... and i usually give up on the hand.

Most of the time when a scare card comes and someone donks into me or they 3bet me or c/r i dunno where i am in the hand and dont wanna put more into the pot and usually give up.
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Old 12-09-2008, 12:26 PM   #8
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

Alright. I've been playing for a couple of years, but I've been learning seriously for the past month. I've been running break even until the last 8k hands, and I had a great run over a couple of sessions. I play 5nl 6 max. I've been learning and reading and responding and trying to catch as much information as I can.



I think one of my biggest leaks is that I'm not aggressive enough on the turn and the river. When I got my really good run, I was very aggressive on both. I started to pick up more and more places to bet on the turn and the river from hud stats. If you have any more suggestions, I'm very open to learn from you guys and absorb as much information as I can. Thank you very much!
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Old 12-10-2008, 03:11 AM   #9
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

Why'd you double thread? =O

I think you can tone down your PFR in 5NL a little, but increase your AF further. Get it to 2.5 at least and closer to 3; be aggressive. Your WTSD is also a bit low, so as with the above poster you might be giving up too easily.

You're losing quite a bit with one pair hands, which isn't that good, but I don't really know what to make of that chart as I don't use it myself.

I think you can consider cold calling on the button a bit more, and flat less in the blinds, but the stats are still pretty good. Come to think about it, I think your high PFR is good since it is a 200bb game we're talking about, so don't worry about it.

Stats looks pretty good in general. Keep it up.
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Old 12-10-2008, 04:00 AM   #10
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

I'm not sure if you guys want to see my stats but here it is (all the hands that I have in my database from 2008 [it's the vast majority of hands that I've played in 2008]), but I'm doing it in two groups because I kinda consciencely changed a few specific things in my game and started playing a bit looser at the beginning of October. (But I'm only going to show levels with over 1K hands which is just 200NL 6max and 100NL 6max. I've played a bunch of other different levels for between 652 hands and 4 hands. - Well actually you'll also see 200NL and 100NL full ring and HU cause I don't know how to easily filter those out in this tab. ------ Position stats though are with there between 3 and 6 players at the table.)



1/1/08 - 9/30/08:











10/1/08 - 12/9/08 11:30 p.m. Eastern:







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Old 12-10-2008, 04:14 AM   #11
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

Lego, is BB big bets? That's pretty crazy.

Now I need to crawl into a hole. =(
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Old 12-10-2008, 04:23 AM   #12
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

Yea. BB = Big Bets.
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Old 12-10-2008, 10:00 AM   #13
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

Reposted from uNL stats thread because I did not get an answer.

Been looking at my stats after 50k hands (5NL and 10NL), I play about 17/13.5/2.8. My other stats are pretty TAGgy, my money won without showdown line is around -2.6BB/100.

I'm pretty concerned about the correlation between my WTSD and W$SD - I thought the lower my WTSD was the higher my W$SD would end up. Here are some relevant stats:

WTSD - 20.5
W$SD - 43.9
W$WSF - 41.4
River AF - 1.6

Looking through the uNL stats thread, almost every other poster using a TAG style has higher WTSD & W$SD than I do, despite having a higher VPIP.

I think my W$WSF is quite high for someone at 5NL/10NL so I don't think I am giving up too easily postflop (against the right opponents of course)

At first I thought I was just running bad - my opponents seem to make a crazy amount of 2 pairs and draws by the river but 'running bad' is far too convenient of an excuse.

I must be doing something badly.

I had a think about it and the only plausible explanations I can come up with are:
- I give up in a lot of spots where I am ahead and keep going in spots where I am behind.
- Villians tighten up their flop/turn calling ranges when playing vs me (unlikely)

Anyone else got any suggestions on what leaks might be revealed by these stats?
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Old 12-10-2008, 10:48 AM   #14
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

Your W$SD is exceedingly low, I'm afraid. Want to show some positional and flop turn river stats?

Running bad can be an issue; what's the sample size?

Your PFR is also a bit low.
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Old 12-10-2008, 08:57 PM   #15
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

Was redirected to this post from elsewhere.

Been playing online poker about 2 months currently 4 tabling 5NL 6MAX and need some advise on how I am playing.

Here are my stats below any advsied on how to improve would be great

Game Stats


My Stats


Position Stats


Graph
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Old 12-10-2008, 10:28 PM   #16
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

Roseeker:

The sample is 50k so that is why I think 'running bad' is not the reason for it.

I have an additional 5k hands this month and my stats are very close (within 1%) of the original sample.

my PFR is low because these are my first 50k hands (excluding 10k at 2NL) - when I started 5NL I played something like 11/3 for the first 20k hands, so the PFR stat is slowly working its way up.

AF by Street:
Flop - 4.07
Turn - 2.42
River - 1.60

Positional stats:

SB 19/7
BB 12/7
UTG 13/13
MP 16/15
CO 19/17
BTN 23/18
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Old 12-10-2008, 10:33 PM   #17
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

Playing 6max 10NL. Getting depressed. I was break even for about 3k hands, then read Ryan FEEs free guide and had this new lease on poker, playing aggro and positionally aware.

Had a nice little boost, then boom I cant seem to win anything. KK, QQ, JJ, AQo, KQo are my biggest losing hands. Im at a crossroad now where I feel like im lost. Attached are my stats, any advice is MUCH appreciated on how I might be able to improve!





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Old 12-10-2008, 10:36 PM   #18
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

GiveusaLidd:

You have a big gap between VPIP and PFR and your fold SB/BB to steal are pretty low - I think you are calling too many raises from the blinds.

I also think your fold to 3 bet is way too low.

Your postflop stats look pretty solid.

Lastly you are not stealing nearly enough at 5NL. Try to get your ATS up to around 25-35% (dependant on table conditions).
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Old 12-10-2008, 10:38 PM   #19
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

Quote:
Originally Posted by Berkobob View Post
Roseeker:

The sample is 50k so that is why I think 'running bad' is not the reason for it.

I have an additional 5k hands this month and my stats are very close (within 1%) of the original sample.

my PFR is low because these are my first 50k hands (excluding 10k at 2NL) - when I started 5NL I played something like 11/3 for the first 20k hands, so the PFR stat is slowly working its way up.

AF by Street:
Flop - 4.07
Turn - 2.42
River - 1.60

Positional stats:

SB 19/7
BB 12/7
UTG 13/13
MP 16/15
CO 19/17
BTN 23/18
i'm not great at analyzing these stats.... but i know you are way too loose from the sb... playing too many pots oop
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Old 12-10-2008, 10:45 PM   #20
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

bbfifas:

you are running at 19/9, IMO you are not nearly aggressive enough preflop.

This is why your W$WSF is so low - you are probably calling a lot of raises out of position and then check/folding to a lot of continuation bets or turn bets. Poker is easier to play when you are the aggressor and have position.

You are also very passive on the flop - again I think this is linked to calling raises instead of being the aggressor.

I feel the reason you are probably losing with stuff like JJ/QQ/KQ/AQ is you are probably making TP/overpairs and check/calling and getting value stacked by AK or QQ+.

I would'nt worry too much about losing with KK, you might need to bet/fold a few more A high boards and let them go. You might be like me and seem to get AA over your KK more than your AA over their KK.
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Old 12-10-2008, 10:45 PM   #21
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

Ice_Wolf

Agree totally - I've tightened this up as I go along, for example, this month I am running 13/9 from the SB.
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Old 12-12-2008, 07:21 AM   #22
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

Bump from page 4

Ozi could we maybe get this stickied-i think it could be a usefull thread
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Old 12-12-2008, 12:47 PM   #23
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

Ok so finally got this to upload. Just moved to 6max - First 3k was a big learning curve. I think this is all of my hands from when i started 6max and is for NL10 only. Im hoping to move up to NL25 in the next week or so.


[IMG][/IMG]





what do you guys think?
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Old 12-12-2008, 01:57 PM   #24
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

hey guys

just started playing seriously after messing about for a month or 2 so i started at 5nl and its gone alrite so far. what do you think??

http://s460.photobucket.com/albums/q...t=5NLStats.jpg

thanks for any advice
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Old 12-12-2008, 06:29 PM   #25
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyfool1985 View Post
Bump from page 4

Ozi could we maybe get this stickied-i think it could be a usefull thread
we do try and keep the number of unlocked stickies to a minimum .....but if CMAR decides this is sticky worthy then i wont disagree.
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