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Old 07-14-2009, 07:54 AM   #351
kaos_
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Re: NL10 to NL200 experiment - finding a way to beat each limit

Also, I love this thread jackwilcox. Thank you. And I can repay you for your contributions to my poker game anytime by letting you sweat me for free.
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Old 07-14-2009, 08:24 AM   #352
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Re: NL10 to NL200 experiment - finding a way to beat each limit

lol no problem


problem with trying to play GTO at the micro's (or even at anything except crazy high stakes) is just that its not the most profitable way to play.

you cant really level a NL25 fish into raising your fake blocking bet when u have the nuts. against someone aggro then yea you can do that i guess, but i rarely see people do it, so there must be a reason.

probably the reason is simply that most people just dont pay attention to what you are doing so therefore trying to level them into spots by balancing your range isnt going to be as profitable as playing maximally exploitively
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Old 07-14-2009, 08:35 AM   #353
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Re: NL10 to NL200 experiment - finding a way to beat each limit

what are you playing right now ?

did you made it from NL20 to NL200 ??

and how much time did you had to do so??
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Old 07-14-2009, 09:11 AM   #354
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Re: NL10 to NL200 experiment - finding a way to beat each limit

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackwilcox View Post
problem with trying to play GTO at the micro's (or even at anything except crazy high stakes) is just that its not the most profitable way to play.

....

probably the reason is simply that most people just dont pay attention to what you are doing so therefore trying to level them into spots by balancing your range isnt going to be as profitable as playing maximally exploitively
I definitely agree with this 100%. GTO is a great place to start and THEN move to exploiting. Of course, anywhere but the nosebleeds, people are so obviously exploitable that you can just start out with an exploitative strategy and never have to worry about GTO.

Thinking about what is GTO is a good way to improve your overall poker game though. Don't you agree? Even if you never use it, it means that you are thinking about situations and maximizing deception and value.
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Old 07-14-2009, 09:16 AM   #355
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Re: NL10 to NL200 experiment - finding a way to beat each limit

please tell me what NL10 and NL200 means thanks
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Old 07-14-2009, 09:20 AM   #356
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Re: NL10 to NL200 experiment - finding a way to beat each limit

Quote:
Originally Posted by POK8 HOOKZ View Post
please tell me what NL10 and NL200 means thanks
the number is the buy-in for that limit assuming you buy in for 100 big blinds (which is what you should be doing)
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Old 07-14-2009, 09:21 AM   #357
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Re: NL10 to NL200 experiment - finding a way to beat each limit

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaos_ View Post
I definitely agree with this 100%. GTO is a great place to start and THEN move to exploiting. Of course, anywhere but the nosebleeds, people are so obviously exploitable that you can just start out with an exploitative strategy and never have to worry about GTO.

Thinking about what is GTO is a good way to improve your overall poker game though. Don't you agree? Even if you never use it, it means that you are thinking about situations and maximizing deception and value.
sorry but what is GTO? thanks
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Old 07-14-2009, 09:25 AM   #358
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Re: NL10 to NL200 experiment - finding a way to beat each limit

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackwilcox View Post
the number is the buy-in for that limit assuming you buy in for 100 big blinds (which is what you should be doing)
so NL10 is a 0.5/0.10 game yes?
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Old 07-14-2009, 09:27 AM   #359
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Re: NL10 to NL200 experiment - finding a way to beat each limit

Quote:
Originally Posted by POK8 HOOKZ View Post
sorry but what is GTO? thanks
stands for game theory optimal and is kind of explained by this..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nash_equilibrium

basically means that if u use it effectively, whatever play u make in a spot will result in your opponent not being able to exploit you based on your frequencies of having different types of hand in that spot.

effectively means your range is completely balanced.
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Old 07-14-2009, 09:28 AM   #360
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Re: NL10 to NL200 experiment - finding a way to beat each limit

Quote:
Originally Posted by POK8 HOOKZ View Post
so NL10 is a 0.5/0.10 game yes?
yes.
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Old 07-15-2009, 12:08 AM   #361
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Re: NL10 to NL200 experiment - finding a way to beat each limit

how come i cant look at that top of this page and see the dueces cracked hand converter


Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG: $51.50
MP: $67.95
CO: $73.30
BTN: $61.25
SB: $51.10
Hero (BB): $50.00

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is BB with 5 4
UTG raises to $2, 4 folds, Hero raises to $7, UTG calls $5

Flop: ($14.25) 2 T 6 (2 players)
Hero bets $6, UTG calls $6

Turn: ($26.25) 5 (2 players)
Hero bets $12, UTG calls $12

River: ($50.25) K (2 players)
Hero bets $25 all in,

Spoiler:


You like the bet sizing on this better wilcox? (than my last hand i posted)
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Old 07-15-2009, 12:15 AM   #362
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Re: NL10 to NL200 experiment - finding a way to beat each limit

how bout this one?

Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

SB: $51.00
Hero (BB): $53.70
UTG: $64.10
MP: $120.25
CO: $40.70
BTN: $32.80

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is BB with 4 4
2 folds, CO raises to $1.50, 2 folds, Hero raises to $5.50, CO calls $4

Flop: ($11.25) J 3 Q (2 players)
Hero bets $4, CO calls $4

Turn: ($19.25) 3 (2 players)
Hero bets $8, CO calls $8

River: ($35.25) T (2 players)
Hero bets $36.20 all in,
Spoiler:
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Old 07-15-2009, 04:21 AM   #363
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Re: NL10 to NL200 experiment - finding a way to beat each limit

what are u trying to make them fold in both situations??

1st one i probably wouldnt 3bet pre flop unless i had a read that he is super loose from utg - his opening range will just be too tight, and you wont get enough folds. as played i think you got lucky on the river to be able to bluff him off JJ.

2nd one, flop and turn bets should be bigger because you want him to be less encouraged to float you. if you had AK by the time you got to this river, you would want to be able to shove and get him to call you pretty easily - the bet sizing you have left means it would be difficult for him to do so
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Old 07-15-2009, 06:36 AM   #364
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Re: NL10 to NL200 experiment - finding a way to beat each limit

Here's an interesting hand and I'd like to hear your opinion Jack. Felt like playing FR today but that shouldn't really matter. I ran at 25/20, dunno if that influenced his play. Probably not. The 3bettor had 16/11 stats and I assume he's a reg. So his 3betting range should be pretty tight. But we're somewhat deepish and I think that I definitely have an edge over most of these guys especially in 3bet pots. So I called.

On both streets he more or less insta-fired. It really looked like AK to me but everytime I try to put someone on AK in these spots I end up getting shown Aces. What do you make of his line?

There's no sense in betting this big with AA or KK. But most of these regs are just really bad postflop and don't know why they're betting or how much they should bet.


Full Tilt Poker $10.00 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

SB: $10.33
BB: $10.00
UTG: $20.00
Hero (UTG+1): $15.88
MP1: $4.95
MP2: $8.27
CO: $19.90
BTN: $10.16

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is UTG+1 with T T
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.40, 2 folds, CO raises to $1.40, 3 folds, Hero calls $1

Flop: ($2.95) 9 4 9 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $2.60, Hero calls $2.60

Turn: ($8.15) 2 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $15.90, Hero folds
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Old 07-15-2009, 06:53 AM   #365
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Re: NL10 to NL200 experiment - finding a way to beat each limit

edges in 3bet pots are mainly exploited through having position.

playing out of position is really tough in 3bet pots purely because of situations like this. your hand looks a lot like TT/ JJ to your opponent, which cant call a shove. he may/ may not read hands, but you will find if you constantly 'turn your hand face up' then you are going to get owned.

i would either set mine and therefore fold on flop when i miss, or just fold pre flop. im edging towards folding pre flop because i dont think you are deep enough to set mine
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Old 07-16-2009, 05:49 PM   #366
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Re: NL10 to NL200 experiment - finding a way to beat each limit

hey...

i made a video but it is like a huge file size.

does anyone know how to produce a video in camtasia to make a smaller file size?? currently its 50mins long and is like 900mb in size
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Old 07-16-2009, 07:33 PM   #367
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Re: NL10 to NL200 experiment - finding a way to beat each limit

this vid shows how

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBwxpV6-9vo
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Old 07-16-2009, 07:39 PM   #368
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Re: NL10 to NL200 experiment - finding a way to beat each limit

Get that video up! Can't wait to see it
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Old 07-16-2009, 10:53 PM   #369
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Re: NL10 to NL200 experiment - finding a way to beat each limit

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=UPC54ALJ

this should be the video....

i apologise in advance for my accent/ bad pronounciation of my 't's, and also i have a cough during this video in order to further add to the unprofessional-ness

post comments on hands if u like and ill try to give further analysis, though dont spam up the thread too much otherwise will be hard for others to find the link

enjoy.

Last edited by jackwilcox; 07-16-2009 at 11:03 PM.
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Old 07-17-2009, 05:01 AM   #370
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Re: NL10 to NL200 experiment - finding a way to beat each limit

How long is it? Can you host on pokertrikz or filefront?

http://www.filefront.com/upload.php

I can't get it due to my region or something.
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Old 07-17-2009, 05:10 AM   #371
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Re: NL10 to NL200 experiment - finding a way to beat each limit

Wanna cut down on those cigs Jack

File is nearly an hour long @RoSeeker

Edit: oh just an after thought, 60mb is uber small for 53mins, could have just kept it at 900mb and uploaded it to youtube as the limit there is still 2gb.

Last edited by TableFox; 07-17-2009 at 05:20 AM.
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Old 07-17-2009, 06:04 AM   #372
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Re: NL10 to NL200 experiment - finding a way to beat each limit

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackwilcox View Post
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=UPC54ALJ

this should be the video....

i apologise in advance for my accent/ bad pronounciation of my 't's, and also i have a cough during this video in order to further add to the unprofessional-ness

post comments on hands if u like and ill try to give further analysis, though dont spam up the thread too much otherwise will be hard for others to find the link

enjoy.

Thanks for the video I loved it so far 40min in. Some slow spots but you do a good job talking about some of the more interesting hands.

Up the video quality a bit if u can ~_~
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Old 07-17-2009, 07:50 AM   #373
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Re: NL10 to NL200 experiment - finding a way to beat each limit

Hey Jack,
My first post here at 2+2 and I've downloaded and watched your video. I really liked the video and how you paused the interesting hands and went into detail on what you thought. It gave me time to "try" to understand the concepts behind what was really happening.

If it's possible, could you make more videos? I really liked watching your play and commentary. Sorry I can't really comment about any of the hands since I'm relatively new, but I did learn a lot.

Thanks
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Old 07-17-2009, 09:16 AM   #374
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Re: NL10 to NL200 experiment - finding a way to beat each limit

Hey, jack i follow this thread for a while and i really like it, i really enjoyed watching the video too and found your explanations to be really good.
Could you please go more into detail about the whole "betting for protection" thing-i often got problems understanding it-i know that you should normally just bet for value or as a bluff. Another thing i often hear, "u dont protect your hand, but your stack and your potequity"meaning small hand small pot i guess.
I often then get other players to catch up and then im unsure if i should have bet . If checking down would have been ok, or if its faulty logic and not the checking down was the problem, but that i called bets when a scarecards hit. (somehow i induce bluffs by checking).
And i have problems with playing weak made hands against bluffers or people who lead oop multiple barrels-i have a hand lets say a pair and am quite sure villain is bluffing-logic says, if he has a bluff there is no value in betting because he folds his air and continues with his good hands-so call down lighter, but often they bluff and still seem to catch a hand and then i wonder if i should have reraised to protect my money i have already invested.


Links again, so it doesnt hide between the posts
Jack Wilcox 4tabling nl25

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=UPC54ALJ

Last edited by widowmakerrr; 07-17-2009 at 09:21 AM.
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Old 07-17-2009, 09:31 AM   #375
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Re: NL10 to NL200 experiment - finding a way to beat each limit

i had trouble uploading it to youtube/ pokertube due to the length... will look into it more next time actually since so far feedback is pretty good.

i should have asked before what points people would like to see being talked about... so if you have any specific topics you want covered then i will try and look into talking about them more if/ when i do another one.

and i dont smoke lol, i was a bit hungover when i made it tho


edit: im probably going to make one without a hud, as i appreciate some people dont have pokertracker/ hold'em manager so therefore they wouldnt know what im on about
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