Whats wrong with playing straight foward? Isn't everyone's motive at playing poker to win money? Plus i don't think that playing against 40/15 kind of fishes doesn't train your poker skills for that matter if thats what you're trying to say.

lol you should be glad of having those at your table.

trust me, when you move up and see practically every table being filled with 20/18 regs, you are soooooooo happy to see a fish sit down

I don't even see whats wrong with having a 40/15 at a table and he complains he has to play straight foward poker. No logic to me imo.

Very good post, really instructive. Playing mainly NL50 6max, would be nice to see a video from you.

Some questions :

What is your 3bet% from the button ?
What are the best hands to 3bet light (from the button mainly ) ?
Do you ever flat 3bets when you open button, hold a strong hand and get 3bet by the blinds (since 4bet folds out everything they might 3bet light with, or even good hands like JJ-) ?

Check, check, check, call, call, check, bet, fold, fold, fold, fold,

good post jack. you seem to know your stuff

good read. glad you are posting again about 25nl after your move

"Many" does not equal "a" which is what I said if you will read.

I want there to be one or two. I don't want there to be 5 at least not at the levels I am playing now. I want to have fun and I want to learn and I don't learn anything new against a table full of these players that I didn't learn the first time I sat down with them.

I love fish. But again for the levels I have been toying with lately I can't stand a table full of calling stations.

Change tables then ? I get what you're driving at now.

Wow so basically you're hoping to have 1 bad player and 4 solid regs ? I hope you rule cause this ain't even marginally EV+ if the bad player doesn't spew off his chips with A3o going all in preflop "cause he has an Ace" and if you get outplayed pre and postflop by the regs.

Yeah I hate fish too. I only play against regs that pwn the **** outta me.

which means that you're the fish

That was very clever of you.

Thank you sir. Your post was quality too

I just have difficulties understanding why people wouldn't wanna sit in a table full of fish rather than table with a fish and some regs, thats all.

I didn't understand initially too.
However, since (i'm assuming) his at the micros, his hoping to have some regs at his tables sometimes so that he can improve his game and try what he learnt. It isn't +ev but at least it helps to improve your game by a bit at least.

Dealing with regs comes on the side. I dont table select for (good) regs, I table select for fish.

I believe everyone table selects for fish, but you don't improve playing against fish.

Yes... yes you do. Why wouldn't you? It's like saying that actual basketball is more sophisticated than simply shooting hoops randomly in your yard or whatever, and as such shooting hoops a lot won't make you better.

+1 playing against anyone makes you better. all depends on how you look at it becuase everyone has something that they can teach you if you watch.

I get better at crushing teh fish?

Guys, is this really that hard to understand? I am not talking about generic fish and I think I was very CLEAR in my posts. I would love a table full of five "fish" as everyone seems to define it. Given me 40/20/5 players who will over value KJ all day and push with pocket 88. What I was talking about is specific calling stations and a few what I would describe as calling stations in transition. Playing at a table with a couple of these guys greatly simplifies every decision you make. Is it profitable? Sure. Is it boring as hell. Oh yeah.

I could be bankrolled for 10/20 if I wanted to be. I am playing at the limits I am now because I am learning nuances in the game. Dealing with stations is always going to be a necessary skill. But as a skill it is pretty basic poker 101.

Now, this is derailing Jack's post and I don't like that this has happened to what is a very fine post. Sorry I brought it up really.

For my next detour I shall bring up why it is +EV to raise for information at uNL...

Any updates?

played a bit more 25NL today, ill show a couple of hands here:

villain in this hand was pretty weird, running 21/8 or something. pre flop is standard button open, then i have to call a 3bet once i get offered like 2.6:1 by the pot. im not planning to put any more money in unless i flop a big hand of course.

Poker Stars $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 4 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (BTN): $25.10
SB: $11.10
BB: $41.15
CO: $55.05

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is BTN with 4 7
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.75, 1 fold, BB raises to $1.75, Hero calls $1

Flop: ($3.60) 4 T 6 (2 players)
BB bets $3.50, Hero calls $3.50

this was a weird bet by villain, i wouldnt expect villain to bet this big with a huge hand here. i think its mainly trying to buy the pot with whatever he 3betted pre flop. even if he does have like AA i still have equity with my 5 outs to make trips/ 2pair. i basically decide to see what he does on the turn.

Turn: ($10.60) K (2 players)
BB bets $5, Hero raises to $19.85 all in, BB calls $14.85

when he bets so small on the turn i cant see him having a huge hand at all. it seems more likely that the king scared him than helped him, and he is just betting to 'see where he is at' or whatever random reasoning he has for his smaller than half pot bet.

i dont like his sizing if he does have AK/ AA type hand, because his shove sizing on the river will be 3/4ths pot, and i will be able to easily get away if i held a hand like JJ/ 9T for example.

using a bit of maths on pokerstove, i basicaly have 30% against a range of AK, KK, AA, and AQcc. i dont think he calls with any other hands (i eliminate 66 and TT from his range because i dont think he ever has those based on his actions), so using fold equity and my equity when called, i only need him to fold 23% of the time to show a profit. i think he is bet/folding this turn at least 1 time in 4, so therefore this is profitable.

River: ($50.30) 8 (2 players - 1 is all in)

he actually had AK which is of course a standard call by him, i still had 31% on the river, but unfortunately didnt hit, though its important to note that i dont expect him to call very often and am essentially trying to maximise my fold equity whereby i only need him to fold 1 time in 4




heres another hand, villain is unknown and has only just sat at the table. this is a super standard 4bet blind v blind. folding sucks because he *should* by 3betting me pretty wide in this spot, calling sucks because mostly i miss a flop and have to try and check raise bluff or whatever. so i decide to 4bet, and i am obviously calling a shove if he decides to do that.

Poker Stars $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 3 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BTN: $16.70
Hero (SB): $41.05
BB: $25.00

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is SB with A Q
1 fold, Hero raises to $1, BB raises to $3, Hero raises to $7.25, BB calls $4.25

Flop: ($14.50) 4 A 8 (2 players)
Hero checks, BB checks

flop i could bet. i dont really think he has too many AJ/AT type hands in his range though, so i dont see much value from it. i prefer checking here to enduce a bluff. if he doesnt bluff, my check indicates weakness, so i can bet the turn and hopefully get a call from JJ type of hand that didnt decide to shove pre flop (is a bad play by him if he has JJ here but whatever)

also, i can comfortably get the money in over two streets, so im not too worried about missing a street of value.

Turn: ($14.50) 5 (2 players)
Hero bets $7.25, BB calls $7.25

i bet half pot to set up an easy river shove, i dont like betting more (means its easier for him to fold) and i dont like betting less (misses value if he folds to river bet)

River: ($29.00) T (2 players)
Hero bets $11.25, BB calls $10.50 all in

obviously river is super standard shove. sucks if he has TT or whatever but yea. i miss so much value if i check because he is checking back the river with every hand i beat like 100% of the time unless he is a total maniac, and he shouldnt be bluffing the river ever if i check, because of stack sizes theres not enough to look strong.

as it was, he had KTss, so he turned a flush. his play is pretty bad on every street except the turn though. pre flop he beats nothing, and is crushed most of the time. on the flop, he has no showdown value so he should bet (i am never check raising the flop ever so he shouldnt be worried of that). turn and river are obviously standard though.


final hand i show from today, not much known on the players at the time of this hand either. pre flop is again standard, i cant fold with the price im getting and the fact that sb is likely to call too.

Poker Stars $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 4 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (BTN): $40.90
SB: $26.05
BB: $27.25
CO: $25.00

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is BTN with J T
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.75, SB calls $0.65, BB raises to $2, Hero calls $1.25, SB calls $1.25

Flop: ($6.00) T 8 7 (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets $4, Hero calls $4, SB raises to $24.05 all in, BB raises to $25.25 all in, Hero calls $21.25

flop i was going to raise, but was close to timing out as was in a hand on other table so just quickly called 'call' lol. i should be raising here and getting it in though as played i didnt need to.

once 2 people are all in i basically have 35% against any conceivable range for them, and because i have such great pot odds, i have to call.

even getting it in vs 1 player here is good, we are actually a favourite over QQ+.

Turn: ($80.55) 4 (3 players - 2 are all in)

River: ($80.55) T (3 players - 2 are all in)

anyway i lost that hand, bb won as he showed J9cc for a flopped straight. dont like his play pre flop because he doesnt make me fold anything really due to the odds he gives me and the fact i have position, he should be squeezing bigger if he wants to do that, although just calling with the J9s there is probably a more profitable option due to my 4bet tendancies.



so yea, for the guy who asked, played like 722 hands today, and ended up down $46, which isnt bad considering.

i am only at like 2.5ptbb/100 now for nl25 (was running in double figures before my last 2 sessions), tho sample size is only like 5k hands.

Pretty cool hands. I don't know if i can make the play you did on the first one but it's pretty interesting.

In Hand 2 I don't know why you think villain's line is so horrible on every street but the turn. Preflop is bad but on the flop you give him a free card. He has a nut flush draw so why not take it? You are never folding an A. It definitely blind sided you given the size of the pot.