I m playing 1/2 NL with 250 effective stack live casino
I think I played really well and managed to grow my stack from 250 to 420. I think at that point I was second in chips with one LAG being the chip leader (roughly around 1000). In terms of table dynamic 20 minutes prior a huge fish joined the table playing an absurd amount of hands so all the regulars were eager to get in a hand with her.

To the hand in question.

[B]Fish straddles to 5
Hero is in the Big Blind (J s 7 s)
Normally I would fold here but it was a pretty soft table other than the chip leader bully and I wanted to get in a hand with the fish.
Hero calls 5
UTG plus 1 calls
Bully in LJ calls

Pot: 24 Dollar

4 way action to the flop:

6 Q J

Hero first to act: check
UTG plus 1 check
Bully checks
Fish checks on the button

Turn comes 7
Hero now makes two pair

Hero first to act:
Hero bets 20
UTG plus raises to 60
Fish calls 60
Herro calls 60

Pot: 204 dollar

There is a flush draw on the board so I m thinking I might be ahead here

River: 7

Hero makes full house on the river Jacks over Sevens
Clever as I think I am:

Hero checks (thinking the bully will bet for sure; especially as the flush got there)
Bully bets 120
Fish folds
Hero shoves all in (around 320)
Bully insta calls and shows pocket queens (giving him a better full house)

Needless to say I was not expecting this at all. From my point of view it was almost impossible to put him on queens as he just flat called the straddle out of position in the low jack. The only other hand that could have beat me was Q J but since I had the J blocker I ruled that one out as well.

What do you guys think? Could I have played that hand differently so I don t go broke there at the end?

Fold Pre. After that you just got unlucky.

I was already in the big blind. So it was 3 more into basically a pot of 20. You still think I should fold even given the odds?

The problem with your logic is that you are too likely to make a second best hand even for amazing odds. If this were limit holdem then you might be able to call but even there OOP with a bad hand is still OOP with a bad hand and you are going to lose a big pot when ever you make a strong but second best hand. Find better spots imo.

If this hand were A7s its a slam dunk play. K8s is a maybe.

Sorry forgot you were a newbie...OOP = out of position

That explanation was actually very helpful. Thanks

Your turn bet is too big 4 way. Losing otr seems fine especially vs an aggro player, but vs some players you might even be able to fold vs the turn raise.

I dunno. Whole hand seems fine to me. Some of the explanatory logic might be a bit questionable, but the actual plays seem ok I think.

Hand seems standard

I agree that the turn bet is too big but other than that the hand looks good to me.

I’m folding preflop if there’s a decent chance anyone is going to raise. If it’s one of those tables where you see one or two preflop raises per dealer down, I’m not folding.

Yeah man, I would have waited for a better opportunity. Seeing how it played out, it would have been pretty hard to get away from it if I am being completely honest. You hit 2 pair on the turn, it would have been tough, but seriously seems like a standard "Bad Beat". I would have folded pre if that was an option. Given that you were BB, I see your reasoning. Also, everyone checking to the flop didn't make it any easier. I would have thrown out a C-Bet on the flop and took it from there. I'm assuming depending on your sizing, 2 would have folded so you would have either been heads up or Bully would have re-raised and I see a chance for you to get away from it there, but yeah, that's a tough one. Hindsight is always 20/20. Good "food for thought" for the next time though

Cbetting this flop with this hand is an absolute disaster. You're being extremely results oriented and the fact that we lost the hand doesn't matter at all.

It wouldn't even be a c-bet because the "c" in c-bet is short for "continuation", which itself is short for "continuation of aggression".

It's a button straddle though, right? Which means that the blinds act first? (genuinely asking, because my casino only allows UTG to straddle) If so, how can you know what the pot total will be before your action? And if someone raises behind you, you'll have to throw it away. If I'm on my A-game I probably fold this pre, but I can understand it seems like a rather attractive hand to be able to play at a discount in a limped pot. I just don't know how often you get your limped pot. Also, as others have said, J7 is good at flopping 2nd best hands, although I'd never be able to put someone on QQ or JJ here, they'd just have to show me QJ.

Yeah you're right, it's not a cbet.

Amendment: Leading this flop with this hand (any hand really) is an absolute disaster.

Yeah you guys are right. I was only saying "C-Bet" as a hypothetical means of possible escape from this hand but I see your perspective as well. By no means do I suggest, based on all the information given, ever doing that. Like I said at the beginning, I would have folded and waited for a better opportunity to get into the hand with the fish.

Fish made a button straddle? Fold not closing the action. Completely different if you faced a raise of $5 and you close the action on the BB. The whole table is yet to play, someone usually beats J7s and will raise forcing you to fold this mediocre hand.

Rest of the hand is OK as stated.

I would bet less OTT. You mixed up your bully, he was LJ not UTG+1 but then UTG +1 raises you OTT. I would fold to a nit raising me OTT but he is not a nit as described.

River is pretty sick but chit happens in poker.

Biggest problems:

1. Pre is bad, you are effectively UTG preflop and then OOP the entire hand. Again its different if everyone has acted and you are closing the action.

2. Mentality about avoiding getting stacked - no once you have the full house here getting the money in is correct.

3. "Bully" and "chip leader" crops up a few times, these are tournament concerns. You can't bully people in a cash game by having more chips than them. You can just fold if you don't want to play a hand, there's no increasing blinds to worry about. If anything short stacks can "bully" full stacks by playing a relatively simple strategy that is impossible to counter.

I've said hand seems standard based on post 3 making me think OP is still closing the action despite the straddle, if not then it's probably a fold pre

the odds we are getting pre is a bit of an illusion, because we still have so many players to act behind us that our effective odds are much worse. fold pre.

1) I'd like to go deeper into the Turn bet sizing. If we go smaller, we are offering even better 'domino' effect odds to 3 Players. with 3 'major' draws out there now. Would we consider going more than pot before pot?

1A) We also have both a bully (don't want to look weak) with a Fish closing action, who presumably will either 'call anything' or fold .. so why not go larger?


2) I presume that UTG+ folded to the $20? You 'say' Bully but then Bully isn't shown in the Turn action but shows up in the River action. I would expect a UTG+ to show up with QQ here some of the time, looking to isolate should the Fish raise his straddle. 'No' Player with QQ should be going nuts on the Flop but certainly should be protecting on the Turn if bet into.

2A) If it actually is a LP Bully in this spot then you just ran into a cooler of a spot with them at the top of their range .. who also could've been waiting to isolate the straddling Fish.

Based on your description and with the flush coming in as well it's really hard not to go broke here as there are lots of holdings the bully could be betting out with here. The issue is how many of them is he calling with that you beat? The one thing I've learned about 'most' Bullies is that they really aren't getting bad money in when it comes to the larger pots. The 'loose' aggressive image plays well when it comes to getting paid OTR (on the River) in these larger pots.

Would you feel any different about calling all-in if you had bet out and then got shoved into?

I'm not suggesting that you should've flatted here very often, I'm just putting it out there that in spots like this (or really any time you bet/raise) you need to consider who your betting into and what you expect to happen 'most' often when you do.

Disclaimer .. I play a lot of PLO .. and this is not an all-in spot for me against most Regs. Our shove is way less likely to be good in that game even through we do shove into the Fish if he's still around. GL

Easy fold pre with a deep stack.
The entire table is left to act behind you, you can't call a raise with this hand.

You'll be playing out of position in what will likely be a multiway pot and facing huge reverse implied odds with a huge stack.

As your stack becomes bigger, position becomes more important.
You want to avoid spots with reverse implied odds.

Especially against a "bully" you want to tighten your range pre, so you generally show up with a stronger range that automatically exploits the bullying.

After that I guess it's just a cooler.
But this is exactly why we avoid these spots with marginal hands.
And tbh, this hand isn't even marginal, it's no where near a call.

You call the big stack a bully, yet you provide no reason or arguments for it.
From what I see in this hand, he seems like a passive fish and not a bully at all.

Pre flop can go either way. We have a a suited hand that can make a straight getting good odds on a call. The downside is we have a bunch of people still to act who can raise us off of it. If you think its a passive table and you will get a see a flop often then its fine.

Rest of the hand is standard. As far as your read of villain goes, if he truly is a aggro bully, he chose a very strange (bad) spot to slowplay.


I used to play a lot of BTN straddle games in MS when I lived near Tunica. My strategy for the blinds was very tight in sb, always coming in for a 4x-5x raise. In the bb I mostly called and went for a limp/3bet strategy with strong value and Axs. Seemed to work well for me. Not sure at all what the optimal strategy is.