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Old 04-05-2019, 05:32 PM   #1
Little Sparra
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Misplayed KK hand?

$0.02/$0.05 Blinds No Limit Holdem

Hero dealt KK raises $0.13 - SB calls and BB raises $0.52, hero raises $1.07, SB folds BB calls.


Flop 986 pot = $2.53

BB checks and I decide to go all in on the flop and bet my remaining $4.54. BB thought for some time and eventually called showing 1010

The turn was a and so now I was drawing dead.

According to Hold'em Manager I was a slight underdog at 48% on the flop. Now which is the better line of play?

1, Check or make small bet on flop and go all in on turn if a non flush or straight card appears on turn i.e only go all in when I am favourite or

2. Go all in on flop, BB may (and nearly did) fold and this avoids giving a free card to BB

I have no idea which is a better line of play, hence my post
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Old 04-05-2019, 05:48 PM   #2
WorldzMine
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Re: Misplayed KK hand?

Your 4bet was too small, it needs to be about $1.20. Shoving that flop is horrible as you only usually get called by hands that already beat you or hands with good equity vs your hand. I check this flop back without the K of spades nearly always and consider a 1/3 pot bet with it.

On the turn if checked to you can bet about 1/2 pot or call a lead up to ~3/4 pot. On the river if you bet turn you then on bricks you can probably bet small again and check back the rest. If you called a turn bet then you likely have to fold to a river bet, especially on non-bricks.

This trying to get all-in on horrible boards for an overpair is usually not going to work out too well for you. Remember you have *one pair* on an incredibly connected board that smacks most calling ranges hard.
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Old 04-05-2019, 06:01 PM   #3
Spacerat65
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Re: Misplayed KK hand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WorldzMine View Post
Your 4bet was too small, it needs to be about $1.20. Shoving that flop is horrible as you only usually get called by hands that already beat you or hands with good equity vs your hand. I check this flop back without the K of spades nearly always and consider a 1/3 pot bet with it.

On the turn if checked to you can bet about 1/2 pot or call a lead up to ~3/4 pot. On the river if you bet turn you then on bricks you can probably bet small again and check back the rest. If you called a turn bet then you likely have to fold to a river bet, especially on non-bricks.

This trying to get all-in on horrible boards for an overpair is usually not going to work out too well for you. Remember you have *one pair* on an incredibly connected board that smacks most calling ranges hard.
this is a very informative post. this is something im going to work on in my game i used to stack off in these spots multi way and either run into a set or someone hits their combo draw. these are the perfect spots to control the pot and win a small amount or avoid losing a lot.
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Old 04-05-2019, 06:02 PM   #4
sixfour
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Re: Misplayed KK hand?

There's nowhere near enough information to make any sort of comment other than that the flop jam was lol
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Old 04-05-2019, 07:04 PM   #5
Kelvis
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Re: Misplayed KK hand?

The sizing makes it way too easy for him to play hands that don't have a spade. If he had QQ or JJ without a spade he has such an easy fold versus the overbet and so you end up getting called by hands that are either flipping or have you crushed.
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Old 04-05-2019, 07:44 PM   #6
PokerPlayingGamble
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Re: Misplayed KK hand?

I don't mind your line. With SPR being what it is on the flop bet-stackoff is fine, and since you are pot stuck after betting anyway it is fine to shove. Our reraise pre is fine if we think that villain won't call a larger bet. Preflop we want to charge whatever the traffic will bear, but not a penny more. Generally I stick to pot sized reraises but I see no problem with your smaller sizing.
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Old 04-05-2019, 07:59 PM   #7
taodungchi
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Re: Misplayed KK hand?

tao says your equity on flop was 22% not 48% mistake #1
you turned your hand into a buff on flop mistake #2
on turn when As comes your equity become 7%
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Old 04-05-2019, 10:03 PM   #8
Didace
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Re: Misplayed KK hand?

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Originally Posted by taodungchi View Post
on turn when As comes your equity become 7%
Explain.
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Old 04-06-2019, 03:53 AM   #9
ArtyMcFly
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Re: Misplayed KK hand?

Bet small (about a quarter or a third of pot) on the flop. Or check back. In 4-bet pots, you don't need to bet big to get all in, and you'd like to actually get some value here if you have the best hand, while also you want to lose the minimum on bad runouts.
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Old 04-06-2019, 12:10 PM   #10
Little Sparra
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Re: Misplayed KK hand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by taodungchi View Post
tao says your equity on flop was 22% not 48% mistake #1
you turned your hand into a buff on flop mistake #2
on turn when As comes your equity become 7%
Re mistake 1 - equity on flop was 47.6% not 22%. Villain has 14 outs - 9's + 3 non 7's + 2 10's. How can 14 outs give villain 78% equity?

Re mistake 2 - Bet was not intended as a bluff although I would have been content if villain folded. I am not sure if it could be construed as a semi-bluff as there is likely to be some equity if the bet is called

Re mistake 3 - The turn gave me 0% equity
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Old 04-06-2019, 12:12 PM   #11
Little Sparra
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Re: Misplayed KK hand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WorldzMine View Post
Your 4bet was too small, it needs to be about $1.20. Shoving that flop is horrible as you only usually get called by hands that already beat you or hands with good equity vs your hand. I check this flop back without the K of spades nearly always and consider a 1/3 pot bet with it.

On the turn if checked to you can bet about 1/2 pot or call a lead up to ~3/4 pot. On the river if you bet turn you then on bricks you can probably bet small again and check back the rest. If you called a turn bet then you likely have to fold to a river bet, especially on non-bricks.

This trying to get all-in on horrible boards for an overpair is usually not going to work out too well for you. Remember you have *one pair* on an incredibly connected board that smacks most calling ranges hard.
Thanks for this good advise.
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Old 04-06-2019, 12:16 PM   #12
Little Sparra
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Re: Misplayed KK hand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerPlayingGamble View Post
I don't mind your line. With SPR being what it is on the flop bet-stackoff is fine, and since you are pot stuck after betting anyway it is fine to shove. Our reraise pre is fine if we think that villain won't call a larger bet. Preflop we want to charge whatever the traffic will bear, but not a penny more. Generally I stick to pot sized reraises but I see no problem with your smaller sizing.
Thanks - the other responses made me think my flop bet-stackoff was terrible but your post makes me feel that it was OK. Perhaps a marginally bad decision but certainly not LOL bad as suggested by another poster.
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Old 04-06-2019, 12:25 PM   #13
Lozgod
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Re: Misplayed KK hand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by taodungchi View Post
on turn when As comes your equity become 7%
Actually it's 000000000.1% assuming the river pairs and the dealer decides to change the rules of NLHE and deals a 6th card.
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Old 04-06-2019, 01:05 PM   #14
michaelorcharlie
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Re: Misplayed KK hand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Sparra View Post
Thanks - the other responses made me think my flop bet-stackoff was terrible but your post makes me feel that it was OK. Perhaps a marginally bad decision but certainly not LOL bad as suggested by another poster.
Your line was absolute crap.
Do not take posts like ''22% EQ on flop'' and ''Your line was okay'' seriously.

4bet more pre
Bet 30-40% flop
ez checkfold turn
try to get to showdown
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Old 04-06-2019, 01:25 PM   #15
King Spew
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Re: Misplayed KK hand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelorcharlie View Post
Do not take posts like ''22% EQ on flop'' and ''Your line was okay'' seriously.
Please explain WHY those two lines are flawed. Otherwise, your post has no validity either.
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Old 04-06-2019, 01:52 PM   #16
michaelorcharlie
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Re: Misplayed KK hand?

EQ on flop vs a generous range including suited connector squeeze gives us 50-58%EQ

''Your line was okay'' was a pure troll by my understanding
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Old 04-06-2019, 10:25 PM   #17
Kelvis
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Re: Misplayed KK hand?

Yeah I don't think that needs another explanation other than "he's a troll". Clearly equity is 0% against a flush.
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Old 04-15-2019, 06:59 AM   #18
Subject365
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Re: Misplayed KK hand?

Did I Play QQ wrong?
Hi I'm new here been playing poker for while and honestly not doing good at all since i moved from SNG to Cash games but really interested in mastering this other side of poker.

So there is this following situation...

I was playing 2nl on Winamax on a full ring table I was in position to the raiser who was in MP he raised I 3 bet him with queens for value assuming that my range was ahead of his since he had been behaving somewhat fishy through the session, I've been playing tight aggressive and I can tell he assume that I was stealing since he donk into me on the flop with almost 3/4 of the pot bet trying to take me out of the pot, the flop came Jd, 5s, 6s I reraised for value (about 2 times his initial raise) and i didn't wanted to give him a good price if he some what manage to be drawing to the flush (even tho' i put him mostly on QJ, KQ,AT, AJ, or lower pairs trying to hit a set ) when i re-raised on the flop and he flatted I narrowed his range to (top pair top kicker, a lower pair or maybe 2 spades )

the turn came and Ah he donk again and i reraised him all in knowing that he didn't have an Ace

he snap called with KJc and the river came a Jh giving him trip Js

So now the question. Did I play that wrong? first i thought that I played that correctly but I've lost my money in cash games in the same situation many times, more times than the ones than the ones that i make money on even if my read is correct and I bet the correct sizes they keep on outdrawing me. some player has TPGK and doesn't let go of his hands he ends up with trips on the river or turn while i hold KK, AA, or in this case QQ

Should i put my money on this hands? or should I only put my money in with the super nuts (sets+)

Or is it bad luck and i just have to endure it till it goes away?

I've been thinking about this hands which had repeatedly made me loose my whole stack and the only reasoning i find is that with this hands my equity is already realized and there is very little chance of improving it since i only have two outs while my opponents have with top pair top kicker if they decide to draw on me even when the price is not right they have about 5 so... that's it

i will much appreciate if someone could give me some light on this
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Old 04-15-2019, 01:40 PM   #19
michaelorcharlie
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Re: Misplayed KK hand?

^

Last edited by King Spew; 04-15-2019 at 01:52 PM. Reason: no trolling in BQ, especially noobs
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