I didnt know were to post this but tonight I took cooler after cooler while playing live in my local card room.

Sometimes I make good progress with my poker but of lately I am just becoming a pure nit and WILL ONLY PLAY the nuts I am now becoming scared to enter pots with middle pairs or AQ in fear a bigger hand out there, the more coolers I take the more I nit up. Last month I had 3 out 3 winning sessions and netted a profit of over $1200 now this month is total different I have played 2 sessions and both times have lost a total of $950.

Okay so picture this if you will we are about to start the game with 5 players, we play a round of each. I buy-in for $250 and I get dealt pocket 4's first hand on the BTN. 2 players fold to me and I raise to $10 and the SB folds and BB calls.

Flop: 764

BB checks, I bet $20, BB insta-calls.

Turn: 10

BB checks, I bet $55, BB insta-shoves all in, Hero insta-calls

River: 5

BB shows 85

WOW first hand I flop trips someone flops the nut straight, now as the dealer deals the next hand I start to think maybe I could of FOLDED on the turn to his C/R so these thoughts now creep into my head. I have a funny way to tilt instead of being a spew-monkey and chase my loses, I fold way more than hands. I just fold and fold and fold and think of reasons NOT to enter the pot any excuse will do like position, ot chip stack I look for reasons to fold. So this is what I am thinking and we are now on to Omaha,

Again I am on the BTN with KK43

UTG limps in, CO raises to $10, I fold, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

I was thinking at the time "my kings are not suited" I am only calling to hit a King if I miss I am going to check/fold, these players dont really fold any draws so its hard to win when they dont fold and I dont want to go the turn/river cards with just a pair of kings with no re-draw to anything and he could already have aces so just fold now. And I fold.

Flop: KT6

OMG...........sick right but wait there is so much more to come.

BB checks, UTG checks, CO bets, BB calls, UTG folds.

Turn: 6

BB bets, CO calls.

River: 3

BB bets, CO calls

BB shows pocket frecking 6's QUADS I would of lost and now confirm to myself that folding pre-flop was good.

So 3 hours pass and new players have joined the game and I havnt played a hand until I pick up AQ o/s on the BTN again, same guy as above raises to $10 UTG and I re-raise to $30, SB calls, BB calls, UTG now makes it $100, I fold, SB and BB folds and he shows pocket Kings. I keep running into hands.

So I fold some more and we are back playing Omaha I am in MP with
AAJ7 I dont raise because my aces are not suited so its multi-way to the flop.

Flop: KK4:diamond

Everyone checks. free card

Turn: Q

Everyone checks, free card

River: A

UTG bets out $15 and gets a weak caller in the middle and I pop it to $45 thinking its for value, UTG then makes it $160 which would put me all in, 1 guy folds, and I call.

Need I tell you what he, yes of course he has KK, cold deck? WTF I am supposed to do here.

How can I overcome my tilt problems?

Its not as if I have a problem with BRM I have a large roll to play in these games.

These are all coolers and part of the game, if you have a hard time dealing with them, then you need to evaluate the way you approach poker. There are decisions and there are results, and in poker, only of of them really matters.

There is only so much one person can take and yes I agree with you that making the right decisions despite the end result is more important. But its hard to take after time and time again making good decisions and getting bad results. I try improve my game and always try to make the best decisions but I would rather be lucky. This has got me thinking that luck is so much more important in poker that I thought it would be.

its not the coolers which are killing you, they are net 0 ev over time, its these loose fishy calls.

How do I change my approach? I really need help with this, its becoming a big leak in my game I think. Can someone help me?

What fishy calls?

What hands the pocket 4's? the AQ? the AAxx in omaha? the only other hand I palyed was 4x3x suited in the SB there was a straddle to $5 everyone called so there was $60 in the pot before the flop. I swear to you I FOLDED everthing else, I didnt defend my BB, I didnt limp I even folded KxKx3x4 rainbow pre-flop in Omaha. Not once do I make a fishy call IMO.

you called a 5xbb raise to set mine a single pair in omaha, unless stacks are 1kbb, thats a huge pf leak.

No I didnt, I FOLDED that hand pre-flop. You are talking about the KK43 hand right? Yeah I folded that hand pre-flop re-read the OP.

I guess you cant be good at poker if you cant be lucky at times. I might give up poker due to luck factor when you play live its to big a factor for me to handle. The long run is either a target that cannot be reached playing live or the long run is something that cant be measured.

Thats just bad luck my friend. You can't base a "bad run" on 3 hands. I have bad days and once in a while a losing month. But the good outweighs the bad. Keep on grinding your luck will turn around.

oh and btw I've only played live 5 times...
Been a 80% fav all in preflop, lost.
Been a 94% favorite going to the river... lost.
Been a 83% fav going to the river...lost.
And been a 60% favorite all in on the flop, lost.
And the one tourney I played top 9 get paid $2k min, i got 10th place.
Now, I only play Blackjack live. I keep my poker online where I can win.
Me and my friends love reminiscing about the terrible plays people made against me and won...It makes for great conversations and lots of big laughs lol.

I don't know, everyone struggles with this. I've been having lots of problem dealing with my downswing also.

There's nothing much you can do about it. All you can do is realize that you can beat the game, you may have leaks, you're not going to go broke (if you keep to your brm obv), and you have time.

This is from a post I made a couple hours ago:


The post is here:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=1229

It's a good conversation about variance. You should check it out. The start of the conversation is here:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=1197

(There are a few conversations going on in that thread - Bear with it, it's a chat thread).




My advice to you is very simple.


Take a break.

Take a break.

Take a break.

Take a break.

You are on perma-tilt. You need to stop playing for a while and cool down.

And when you come back, maybe concentrate on either Holdem or Omaha for a while.

I should've done that when I was down my third buyin and not the 9th.

I've never played live, but in any form of poker this is a major form of tilt.

Are you quite sure you're not playing with scared money? It sounds as though you might be.

Nitting up, you're leaving money on the table by folding too often preflop when you have decent equity AND when you do enter a pot opponents are only sticking around with strong hands.

I have to say, I sympathise with you guys who play live. I've no idea how you cope with the variance when you're playing so few hands in a session. It's bad enough on-line.

Good Luck

Live is rigged. Can't beat a RNG. Never happens online.

Thanks for your posts Cry Me A River it was helpful.

The game is a round of each, when the dealer BTN does 1 orbit we change games from Holdem to Omaha and vice versa it keeps the fish in action.

I keep running into the same problems at this table and keep making the same points in the threads I make. Picture if you will 6-8 players running at 75/5/2 or 60/15/4 level 1 thinkers at best who only think about their cards, who wont fold to C-Bet or 2 or 3 barrels because 90% of all hands go to showdown.

Therefore my approach to this game is to have a strong enough hand at the showdown to win and thus not entering many pots until I find that hand because bluffing is not a effective strategy IMO as someone out of the field of calling stations will have a hand that they think will be good enough to call all the way to the river. I got dealt roughly 150 hands last night in 3 hours and I only played 6 hands out that 150 which works out at 9% and twice I raised/3-bet pre-flop and once I folded to a 4-bet when I had AQ.

There are not many raises pre-flop in these game so the table is seeing cheap flops like 75%+ of the time but are WILLING to call $20-30 raises so you are on really bloating the pot with 4-5 callers in with you when you a hand like AK with only $200+ or more behind to play with and when you miss the flop they check it to you so you feel as if they only way to win the hand is by betting with Ace-high but you also know that you are getting called so many times I check the flop after betting pre-flop with 4 other players in with me.

This really hit home for me, while I win more times than I lose I never really have a spectacular day. How can I change that?

This is exactly what happens its like you read my mind or something, I never OUTPLAY my opponenets becasue they just will not fold to my bets so I have to wait for a strong hand and I get paid off very easily but its not often I get a strong hand and therefore it is critical to me to win these hands because of fact I dont enter many pots.

Its hurts so much more in live poker when you have a cooler hand or suckout because hands dont come that often IMO, but in this game there is so so so much DEAD money out there just waiting to be picked up. Sometimes I dont know if I am adjusting to this game correctly because I never win at a constant rate when I feel I should maybe I have a leak that I cannot see.

http://www.xtranormal.com/users.php?...uid=96013&op=0

Let me chime in and agree you ran into some big hands.

1) What do you think the guy is calling the flop with? Run through some hands? There is no flush draw so he has a straight draw or a straight. You are hoping he has what? two pair? You had position so check the turn and he bets less on the river. On the river , any 3 or 8 beats you. Easy fold.

2) KK43 is a throw away hand, good fold. It is no way a playable hand, easy fold.

3) Third hand, you got outplayed (and ran into quads). What are you think (not hope) calls you? A smaller full house? The only hand that calls you (in reality) beats you.

KQ, AK, QQ, flush etc, time and time again I have been called with the "nut flush" or smaller full house in the same situation. If you read my post above these types of players make crying calls all the time.

Like I said he could easy call with just two overcards like AxTx or Tx7x or two pair, or slowplaying an overpair.

I have been in the same spot when I flopped trip 9's, the flop came down Tx9x4 rainbow, checks to me, I make a PSB, someone goes all in and gets one caller in EP before it gets back to me, I re-raise all in and get called by 10-7.

The way you outplay calling stations is by value betting them to death not by nitting it up and waiting for monsters.


Everybody needs to re-read that until they really understand it. Seriously! This one of the most important concepts in playing micro stakes online or small stakes live.

If there's two keys that everyone absolutely needs it know, IMO, it's that and when a passive player (calling station) raises, you really need to re-evaluate one pair hands, including overpairs. This is particularly true if you're playing deep (ie; 2NL and 5NL online). If a 35/4/.5 raises you on a scary turn, you're allowed to fold AA.

Rooster, I am sympathetic to the losses, especially running into quads, really just nothing you can do about it. In the Omaha hand would those three hands have checked the turn? You have to look a the clues (it is easier after the hand). Sometimes it is better to win a smaller pot than reopen the betting.

I feel your pain.

I'm going to harp on this because it is so important and so many people don't get it.

Many new players believe outplaying your opponents means making them fold.

This is wrong!

This is worse than wrong.

This is a fundamental misunderstanding of the game.

The goal in poker is to take the other player's money.

You outplay your opponents by taking their money.

Period.

Full stop.

Nothing more. Nothing less.

It does not matter how you take their money!

When you die and try to get into to heaven, St. Peter isn't going to be there tallying up all your sick bluffs before letting you in.

Nobody cares but you.

Yes, when you are playing against tight players a common way to take their money is to make them fold a better hand. However, this is a much more difficult strategy to use against loose players.

There any many more ways to outplay your opponents.

You outplay your opponents when you iso raise weak players.

You outplay your opponents when you set mine against tight raisers who can't fold overpairs.

You outplay your opponents when you make smart, thin value bets against calling stations.

You outplay your opponents when you don't pay them off because they obviously have you beat.

You outplay your opponents when you make them chase with bad odds.

You outplay your opponents when you call because they've given you good odds to chase.

etc.

etc.

etc.

Equating outplaying to making players fold is like saying basketball is all about free-throws.

That makes Shaq one of the worst players of all time, not one of the best.

Oh god we have the nut full house one hand beats us, you really think akxx is folding on the river? Your results orientedness hurts me deeply.

Youre just like the guy who started coaching me after I got felted with 88 on k85j rainbow after he checked flop behind with kk, some hands are just coolers.