Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Beginners Questions Poker beginner? Ask your (possibly) naive question here and our community will attempt to help you.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-30-2011, 03:59 PM   #1
aofigbfbao
newbie
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 24
how are pot size bets calculated preflop?

Have been wondering this for years, and i'm finally bored enough to ask. if i'm utg at 10nl, and i hit the "pot" button I open to .35, however, there is only .15 in the pot from the blinds before my raise.

So where does the extra .20 come from?
aofigbfbao is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2011, 04:09 PM   #2
El-Sheik
adept
 
El-Sheik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: OOP
Posts: 754
Re: how are pot size bets calculated preflop?

The minraise (.20) + what is already in the pot (.15) = .35
El-Sheik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2011, 04:41 PM   #3
obviously.bogus
Pooh-Bah
 
obviously.bogus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Up a creek ... Infractions: 37 (99)
Posts: 4,904
Re: how are pot size bets calculated preflop?

Quote:
Originally Posted by El-Sheik View Post
The minraise (.20) + what is already in the pot (.15) = .35
More precisely ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betting_in_poker#Pot_limit
In a pot-limit game no player can raise more than the size of the total pot, which includes:
  1. Chips collected from previous betting rounds (Starting pot)
  2. Previous action in the current betting round (Trail)
  3. A call from the player making the raise
Pre-flop UTG, there are no chips from the previous round, 15c previous action (BB+SB) + 10c call from UTG = 25c pot.

So UTG puts in the 10c call + 25c pot raise = 35c total.

Last edited by obviously.bogus; 05-30-2011 at 05:03 PM. Reason: Nija edit from previous bad answer
obviously.bogus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2011, 05:21 PM   #4
aofigbfbao
newbie
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 24
Re: how are pot size bets calculated preflop?

thanks guys, that makes sense
aofigbfbao is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2017, 05:55 PM   #5
Antvil
stranger
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 1
Re: how are pot size bets calculated preflop?

Hi guys
I have been reading about this topic and the definition of a pot size raise is not clear to me yet. I give you an example:
SB 1
BB 2
UTG calls 2
Everyone folds
So what would be the SB's pot sizes bet?
As explained in this and other forums the bet would be:
1 (SB) + 2 (BB) + 2 (UTG) + 1 (SB call) = 6
6 (Pot) + 1 (SB call) = 7
But actually the correct bet according to Poker Stars is 8.
Can anyone explain why?
Antvil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2017, 07:33 PM   #6
answer20
Pooh-Bah
 
answer20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Corner of Walk/Don't Walk
Posts: 5,096
Re: how are pot size bets calculated preflop?

More than one way to skin a cat .... Good explanation up there by OB ...

Some folks calculate the 'on top' or raise amount and then just have the 'potter' call and put that amount on top of the call.

The short cut method is to multiply the bet the 'potter' is calling times 3 and then add in the rest of the chips from both this street and the pot.

So in your example the SB is facing a 'bet' (call) of 2 from UTG (2x3=6) plus the BB (2) is a 'pot' of 8.

It does get a little tricky if the Button had bet pot ... (2x3=6) plus the BB AND SB would be a pot of 10, not 8. The SB is rounded up to 2 in this spot. You also notice that the '1' the SB had in the pot above was not included in the calculation.

Typically PLO is played 1-2-5. If both blinds fold PF, then their contribution is only '5' (1+2=5) when calculating future pots. If the SB folds and the BB calls, then just the SB is rounded up to 5 in those pots. Blinds are counted as 'whole' before they fold, but are only rounded up when folded into the middle.

Example ... Flop, Pot is 40 ... Bet of 20, Call 20, Call 20 then a Pot bet ...

Pot is 3x20 (2nd caller) + 20 (first caller) + 20 (bettor of 20) + 40 (pot in the middle) = 140 total.

Just think of the math that Dealers need to go through if they are playing 1-3 PLO and the players are allowed to bet with singles!! GL
answer20 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2017, 03:44 AM   #7
the pleasure
veteran
 
the pleasure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,002
Re: how are pot size bets calculated preflop?

Quote:
Originally Posted by answer20 View Post
More than one way to skin a cat .... Good explanation up there by OB ...

Some folks calculate the 'on top' or raise amount and then just have the 'potter' call and put that amount on top of the call.

The short cut method is to multiply the bet the 'potter' is calling times 3 and then add in the rest of the chips from both this street and the pot.

So in your example the SB is facing a 'bet' (call) of 2 from UTG (2x3=6) plus the BB (2) is a 'pot' of 8.

It does get a little tricky if the Button had bet pot ... (2x3=6) plus the BB AND SB would be a pot of 10, not 8. The SB is rounded up to 2 in this spot. You also notice that the '1' the SB had in the pot above was not included in the calculation.

Typically PLO is played 1-2-5. If both blinds fold PF, then their contribution is only '5' (1+2=5) when calculating future pots. If the SB folds and the BB calls, then just the SB is rounded up to 5 in those pots. Blinds are counted as 'whole' before they fold, but are only rounded up when folded into the middle.

Example ... Flop, Pot is 40 ... Bet of 20, Call 20, Call 20 then a Pot bet ...

Pot is 3x20 (2nd caller) + 20 (first caller) + 20 (bettor of 20) + 40 (pot in the middle) = 140 total.

Just think of the math that Dealers need to go through if they are playing 1-3 PLO and the players are allowed to bet with singles!! GL

isnt the shortcut post flop last bet x3?
the pleasure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2017, 01:00 PM   #8
answer20
Pooh-Bah
 
answer20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Corner of Walk/Don't Walk
Posts: 5,096
Re: how are pot size bets calculated preflop?

Quote:
Originally Posted by the pleasure View Post
isnt the shortcut post flop last bet x3?
I see at least two 'x3' in my post ... PF has potentially 3 components ...
1) x3 the bet facing 'potter' as you indicate
2) Trail (or dead) chips from previous Flop action NOT including any previous chips put in by 'potter'
3) The pot in the middle from pre-Flop action

There are certainly lots of scenarios to specifically look at ... both components 1 and 2 can be zero if the first person post-Flop pot bets.

Things can get 'weird' right away ... If you play 1-2-5 PLO then there's always discussion as to what the max opening bet can be, either $15 or $20. I think it's $20 (3x$5 plus SB = $20) but some rooms insist on only $15. Even though the BB has 'actually' only put in $2 'the bet' facing any other player is $5 from the BB. GL
answer20 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2017, 01:24 PM   #9
VBAces
old hand
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,879
Re: how are pot size bets calculated preflop?

Quote:
Originally Posted by the pleasure View Post
isnt the shortcut post flop last bet x3?
That only works if the bet was a pot bet, and there were no callers. If the bet is less than pot sized, then it doesn't work - and if there are callers before you re-pot, then it doesn't work.
VBAces is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2017, 09:07 PM   #10
the pleasure
veteran
 
the pleasure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,002
Re: how are pot size bets calculated preflop?

so what IS the easiest way to calculate what a pot sized bet is when its the flop and we have a bet or two or a call and a raise?

I figured tehre would be SOME type of easy equation : /
the pleasure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2017, 03:21 AM   #11
Ward17
stranger
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 14
Re: how are pot size bets calculated preflop?

The easiest equation in my opinion is to calculate the last bet x 3 plus the trail

So say there is 85 in the pot, a flop bet of 50 and a single call. Now you want to raise a pot size bet.

If you want to bet the pot you take 50 x 3 plus the trail (the opening $50 flop bet and the pot to the flop, $85)

So it's 50x3 =150 + the trail which is 50+85=135 so 150+135 and your pot size bet is $285.

Some people like to use the "call the bet and raise the pot" method so if you call the $50 now there is $150 in the pot on this round of betting and $85 in the middle from the preflop action so if you "call the bet and raise the pot" you're calling the $50 and raising what's out there ($235) which still gets you to a bet of $285.

Last bet x 3 plus the trail.

That's the easiest way, just remember that.
Ward17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2017, 03:27 AM   #12
Ward17
stranger
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 14
Re: how are pot size bets calculated preflop?

Quote:
Originally Posted by answer20 View Post
I see at least two 'x3' in my post ... PF has potentially 3 components ...
1) x3 the bet facing 'potter' as you indicate
2) Trail (or dead) chips from previous Flop action NOT including any previous chips put in by 'potter'
3) The pot in the middle from pre-Flop action

There are certainly lots of scenarios to specifically look at ... both components 1 and 2 can be zero if the first person post-Flop pot bets.

Things can get 'weird' right away ... If you play 1-2-5 PLO then there's always discussion as to what the max opening bet can be, either $15 or $20. I think it's $20 (3x$5 plus SB = $20) but some rooms insist on only $15. Even though the BB has 'actually' only put in $2 'the bet' facing any other player is $5 from the BB. GL
Whether the opening bet is $15 or $20 depends on whether the room counts the $1 and $2 blinds to count as $5 collectively or $5 each. If they count as $5 collectively the opening raise is $15, if they count as $5 each the opening raise is $20.
Ward17 is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:49 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online