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 05-30-2011, 03:59 PM #1 aofigbfbao newbie   Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 24 how are pot size bets calculated preflop? Have been wondering this for years, and i'm finally bored enough to ask. if i'm utg at 10nl, and i hit the "pot" button I open to .35, however, there is only .15 in the pot from the blinds before my raise. So where does the extra .20 come from?
 05-30-2011, 04:09 PM #2 El-Sheik adept     Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: OOP Posts: 754 Re: how are pot size bets calculated preflop? The minraise (.20) + what is already in the pot (.15) = .35
05-30-2011, 04:41 PM   #3
obviously.bogus
Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Up a creek ... Infractions: 37 (99)
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Re: how are pot size bets calculated preflop?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by El-Sheik The minraise (.20) + what is already in the pot (.15) = .35
More precisely ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betting_in_poker#Pot_limit
In a pot-limit game no player can raise more than the size of the total pot, which includes:
1. Chips collected from previous betting rounds (Starting pot)
2. Previous action in the current betting round (Trail)
3. A call from the player making the raise
Pre-flop UTG, there are no chips from the previous round, 15c previous action (BB+SB) + 10c call from UTG = 25c pot.

So UTG puts in the 10c call + 25c pot raise = 35c total.

Last edited by obviously.bogus; 05-30-2011 at 05:03 PM. Reason: Nija edit from previous bad answer

 05-30-2011, 05:21 PM #4 aofigbfbao newbie   Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 24 Re: how are pot size bets calculated preflop? thanks guys, that makes sense
 11-21-2017, 05:55 PM #5 Antvil stranger   Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 1 Re: how are pot size bets calculated preflop? Hi guys I have been reading about this topic and the definition of a pot size raise is not clear to me yet. I give you an example: SB 1 BB 2 UTG calls 2 Everyone folds So what would be the SB's pot sizes bet? As explained in this and other forums the bet would be: 1 (SB) + 2 (BB) + 2 (UTG) + 1 (SB call) = 6 6 (Pot) + 1 (SB call) = 7 But actually the correct bet according to Poker Stars is 8. Can anyone explain why?
 11-21-2017, 07:33 PM #6 answer20 Carpal \'Tunnel     Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Corner of Walk/Don't Walk Posts: 6,252 Re: how are pot size bets calculated preflop? More than one way to skin a cat .... Good explanation up there by OB ... Some folks calculate the 'on top' or raise amount and then just have the 'potter' call and put that amount on top of the call. The short cut method is to multiply the bet the 'potter' is calling times 3 and then add in the rest of the chips from both this street and the pot. So in your example the SB is facing a 'bet' (call) of 2 from UTG (2x3=6) plus the BB (2) is a 'pot' of 8. It does get a little tricky if the Button had bet pot ... (2x3=6) plus the BB AND SB would be a pot of 10, not 8. The SB is rounded up to 2 in this spot. You also notice that the '1' the SB had in the pot above was not included in the calculation. Typically PLO is played 1-2-5. If both blinds fold PF, then their contribution is only '5' (1+2=5) when calculating future pots. If the SB folds and the BB calls, then just the SB is rounded up to 5 in those pots. Blinds are counted as 'whole' before they fold, but are only rounded up when folded into the middle. Example ... Flop, Pot is 40 ... Bet of 20, Call 20, Call 20 then a Pot bet ... Pot is 3x20 (2nd caller) + 20 (first caller) + 20 (bettor of 20) + 40 (pot in the middle) = 140 total. Just think of the math that Dealers need to go through if they are playing 1-3 PLO and the players are allowed to bet with singles!! GL
11-22-2017, 03:44 AM   #7
the pleasure
veteran

Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,245
Re: how are pot size bets calculated preflop?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by answer20 More than one way to skin a cat .... Good explanation up there by OB ... Some folks calculate the 'on top' or raise amount and then just have the 'potter' call and put that amount on top of the call. The short cut method is to multiply the bet the 'potter' is calling times 3 and then add in the rest of the chips from both this street and the pot. So in your example the SB is facing a 'bet' (call) of 2 from UTG (2x3=6) plus the BB (2) is a 'pot' of 8. It does get a little tricky if the Button had bet pot ... (2x3=6) plus the BB AND SB would be a pot of 10, not 8. The SB is rounded up to 2 in this spot. You also notice that the '1' the SB had in the pot above was not included in the calculation. Typically PLO is played 1-2-5. If both blinds fold PF, then their contribution is only '5' (1+2=5) when calculating future pots. If the SB folds and the BB calls, then just the SB is rounded up to 5 in those pots. Blinds are counted as 'whole' before they fold, but are only rounded up when folded into the middle. Example ... Flop, Pot is 40 ... Bet of 20, Call 20, Call 20 then a Pot bet ... Pot is 3x20 (2nd caller) + 20 (first caller) + 20 (bettor of 20) + 40 (pot in the middle) = 140 total. Just think of the math that Dealers need to go through if they are playing 1-3 PLO and the players are allowed to bet with singles!! GL

isnt the shortcut post flop last bet x3?

11-22-2017, 01:00 PM   #8
Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Corner of Walk/Don't Walk
Posts: 6,252
Re: how are pot size bets calculated preflop?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by the pleasure isnt the shortcut post flop last bet x3?
I see at least two 'x3' in my post ... PF has potentially 3 components ...
1) x3 the bet facing 'potter' as you indicate
2) Trail (or dead) chips from previous Flop action NOT including any previous chips put in by 'potter'
3) The pot in the middle from pre-Flop action

There are certainly lots of scenarios to specifically look at ... both components 1 and 2 can be zero if the first person post-Flop pot bets.

Things can get 'weird' right away ... If you play 1-2-5 PLO then there's always discussion as to what the max opening bet can be, either \$15 or \$20. I think it's \$20 (3x\$5 plus SB = \$20) but some rooms insist on only \$15. Even though the BB has 'actually' only put in \$2 'the bet' facing any other player is \$5 from the BB. GL

11-22-2017, 01:24 PM   #9
VBAces
old hand

Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,957
Re: how are pot size bets calculated preflop?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by the pleasure isnt the shortcut post flop last bet x3?
That only works if the bet was a pot bet, and there were no callers. If the bet is less than pot sized, then it doesn't work - and if there are callers before you re-pot, then it doesn't work.

 11-23-2017, 09:07 PM #10 the pleasure veteran     Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 3,245 Re: how are pot size bets calculated preflop? so what IS the easiest way to calculate what a pot sized bet is when its the flop and we have a bet or two or a call and a raise? I figured tehre would be SOME type of easy equation : /
 11-29-2017, 03:21 AM #11 Ward17 stranger   Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 14 Re: how are pot size bets calculated preflop? The easiest equation in my opinion is to calculate the last bet x 3 plus the trail So say there is 85 in the pot, a flop bet of 50 and a single call. Now you want to raise a pot size bet. If you want to bet the pot you take 50 x 3 plus the trail (the opening \$50 flop bet and the pot to the flop, \$85) So it's 50x3 =150 + the trail which is 50+85=135 so 150+135 and your pot size bet is \$285. Some people like to use the "call the bet and raise the pot" method so if you call the \$50 now there is \$150 in the pot on this round of betting and \$85 in the middle from the preflop action so if you "call the bet and raise the pot" you're calling the \$50 and raising what's out there (\$235) which still gets you to a bet of \$285. Last bet x 3 plus the trail. That's the easiest way, just remember that.
11-29-2017, 03:27 AM   #12
Ward17
stranger

Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 14
Re: how are pot size bets calculated preflop?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by answer20 I see at least two 'x3' in my post ... PF has potentially 3 components ... 1) x3 the bet facing 'potter' as you indicate 2) Trail (or dead) chips from previous Flop action NOT including any previous chips put in by 'potter' 3) The pot in the middle from pre-Flop action There are certainly lots of scenarios to specifically look at ... both components 1 and 2 can be zero if the first person post-Flop pot bets. Things can get 'weird' right away ... If you play 1-2-5 PLO then there's always discussion as to what the max opening bet can be, either \$15 or \$20. I think it's \$20 (3x\$5 plus SB = \$20) but some rooms insist on only \$15. Even though the BB has 'actually' only put in \$2 'the bet' facing any other player is \$5 from the BB. GL
Whether the opening bet is \$15 or \$20 depends on whether the room counts the \$1 and \$2 blinds to count as \$5 collectively or \$5 each. If they count as \$5 collectively the opening raise is \$15, if they count as \$5 each the opening raise is \$20.

04-10-2018, 02:08 AM   #13
Scarmaker
grinder

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Eastern Europe
Posts: 683
Re: how are pot size bets calculated preflop?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Antvil Hi guys I have been reading about this topic and the definition of a pot size raise is not clear to me yet. I give you an example: SB 1 BB 2 UTG calls 2 Everyone folds So what would be the SB's pot sizes bet? As explained in this and other forums the bet would be: 1 (SB) + 2 (BB) + 2 (UTG) + 1 (SB call) = 6 6 (Pot) + 1 (SB call) = 7 But actually the correct bet according to Poker Stars is 8. Can anyone explain why?
What am I missing? You are on the SB (1). You call 1 and raise additional 6. 1+1+6 = 8.

 04-10-2018, 09:39 AM #14 answer20 Carpal \'Tunnel     Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Corner of Walk/Don't Walk Posts: 6,252 Re: how are pot size bets calculated preflop? You're not missing anything ... Couple of explanation points ... 1) 'Pot' means "I raise the pot" ... whatever money is already committed to the pot is counted. Various PF rules may apply to the value of blinds folded or pending action. 2) Before any poker player can raise they must first 'match' (call) the bet they're facing. This is the mistake above. 3) Using the other calculation method of 'pot' ... (3x bet + trail + middle) ... ignores any chips that the 'potter' has in front of him, which eliminates some of the same confusion. GL
 04-11-2018, 09:26 AM #15 heehaww Pooh-Bah     Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Tacooos!!!! Posts: 4,447 Re: how are pot size bets calculated preflop? Think of it from the perspective of either the bb (if you're 2-betting) or the raiser (if you're 3-betting). If you're raising first-in, what will make the bb have a pot-sized bet to call? The bb already put in 10c. When you match the 10c that's 25c in the pot. So add 25c to the bb's 10 = 35c, which will make the bb have to call 25c into a pot of 25 (not counting the amount you're raising on top). I don't play pot-limit but I frequently do a similar calculation in NL (using the same approach) when I'm 3-betting and thinking of how much to raise.
 04-15-2018, 12:34 PM #16 Cfoye adept   Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 712 Re: how are pot size bets calculated preflop? also long story short a pot bet is 2-1. when you hit the pot button you will always give the previous person who wagered 2-1. It's as simple as that

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