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Old 01-31-2012, 07:39 AM   #1
DispelTheMyth
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How to play with a big chip lead

Hi All


In tournaments i find it easy to cumulate chips (online or off) but once i gets lots of chips i spew them or end up letting the blinds catch up

Are there any well written articles on tournament styles to play with a big chip advantage?



Example i was playing a 18k deepstack last week and i had trebled up after 1 or 2 levels due to aggros shoving with 2nd - 5th nuts whilst i held the nuts, (such as queen high flush Vs. Ace high). After this i played a few pots, limping in or raising with the right hands, but i kept being aware of the BB i had and saw the average creep up from 200BB down to 50BB and so on with me not winning many hands. I'm not 100% sure but i think my style changes for the worse when i have the big chip lead, but im not sure what the optimal strategy is, should i be seeing lots of cheap flops or being the aggro

Also during the same tournament whislt i had about 50k i limped for 400 in mid position and an unknown slight aggro (did show AA, AA and AK previously but didnt shove these hands) shoved for 10k and it was folded to me, with 50k should i have called this shove with 77 or fold, i only folded as i didnt want my chip advantage eaten into which is not thh right mentality to have i know but i thoguht id be racing at best


Thanks for any help
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Old 01-31-2012, 08:09 AM   #2
chad0x001
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Re: How to play with a big chip lead

got to be aggro when you have a big stack. id have folded the 77. why risk 20% of your stack with a small /' med pp?
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Old 01-31-2012, 09:05 AM   #3
DalTXColtsFan
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Re: How to play with a big chip lead

Hoping I'm not hijacking the thread here, is there a difference in how you'd play with a big lead in a tournament vs. in a cash game?

I would think in a cash game you'd play with a big lead the same way you'd play any other time - by making +EV decisions, period - not taking a chance and giving away money on improbable plays.

In a TOURNAMENT I'd think MAYBE you'd want to widen your shoving range just a bit knowing shortstacked players will be shoving any decent hand, but at the same time, if you're way ahead of someone you don't want to just GIVE them chips and let them creep back into the game.

Really, the only "true advantage" I see to being deepstacked is you don't have to worry about not being able to bet enough on each street to give villains bad pot odds.
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Old 01-31-2012, 10:08 AM   #4
TakeAMultiBrah
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Re: How to play with a big chip lead

Quote:
Originally Posted by DalTXColtsFan View Post
Hoping I'm not hijacking the thread here, is there a difference in how you'd play with a big lead in a tournament vs. in a cash game?

I would think in a cash game you'd play with a big lead the same way you'd play any other time - by making +EV decisions, period - not taking a chance and giving away money on improbable plays.

In a TOURNAMENT I'd think MAYBE you'd want to widen your shoving range just a bit knowing shortstacked players will be shoving any decent hand, but at the same time, if you're way ahead of someone you don't want to just GIVE them chips and let them creep back into the game.

Really, the only "true advantage" I see to being deepstacked is you don't have to worry about not being able to bet enough on each street to give villains bad pot odds.
The advantage of being deepstacked is that you have enough chips to cover the other bigstacks / medium stacks so when you have a shot to double up you'll be winning a lot more chips then if you were shortstacked, it lets you build momentum compared to being shortstacked where you are just looking to survive. It also makes the other players fear you somewhat and play more cautiously against you, and you have enough chips to make moves.
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Old 01-31-2012, 11:16 AM   #5
chad0x001
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Re: How to play with a big chip lead

Quote:
Originally Posted by DalTXColtsFan View Post
Hoping I'm not hijacking the thread here, is there a difference in how you'd play with a big lead in a tournament vs. in a cash game?

I would think in a cash game you'd play with a big lead the same way you'd play any other time - by making +EV decisions, period - not taking a chance and giving away money on improbable plays.

dead right mate. the only real difference is that you can now stack anyone at the table.

In a TOURNAMENT I'd think MAYBE you'd want to widen your shoving range just a bit knowing shortstacked players will be shoving any decent hand, but at the same time, if you're way ahead of someone you don't want to just GIVE them chips and let them creep back into the game.

not widen your shoving range I dont think unless you are final tabling and likely to get more folds since you can knock them out, more about being able to raise wider pre, get fold, collect blinds and any limps

Really, the only "true advantage" I see to being deepstacked is you don't have to worry about not being able to bet enough on each street to give villains bad pot odds.
that last bit is just wrong. the only true advantage is having everyone covered so you can get a whole stack rather than 80% of it. it's hard to give someone the bad odds on the flop, not so much the turn.
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Old 01-31-2012, 01:37 PM   #6
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Re: How to play with a big chip lead

I can't count the number of times I've seen someone luckbox their way to a big stack, and then go from chip leader to bust in minutes by being spewy loose aggro in every pot. So don't do that! There's some conventional wisdom that the big stacks should get hyper-aggro, because smaller stacks will be scared of them, but that's really a two-edged thing. Sure, you might be the one player at the table who can bust everyone, but you're also the one player at the table who can double anyone else up. So some players will view you as a threat, but others will view you as an opportunity - that's how I feel when I see a fishy player with a big stack.

You should take table dynamics into account when determining how to play your big stack. If the table is a bit scared-tight, you should certainly try stealing more - ideally you can just gradually grow your stack by winning a lot of pots uncontested - but proceed very cautiously if you meet resistance. If you seem loose, a lot of players will be waiting for good spots to double through you, and you don't want to let that happen. If you have a big stack and the players mostly seem scared to mix it up with you, you have to be especially concerned when they do get involved. If instead the table is drunk and 3-bet shoving all the time, you don't want to widen your steal range; you want to pick off the light shoves with good hands. Bear in mind that if you have a big chip lead, there's a lot of value to preserving your stack, because you can probably ride it straight to the final table, and that's where you make actual money.

What I don't understand from your description of how you played is why you'd be limping 77. If you're limping marginal hands, you're just inviting people to shove anything at all overtop. You should be raising those kinds of hands, in part because it gives you a chance to steal, and in part because it means players can't shove as easily without a real hand. I definitely think you were right to fold the 77 to a 25 bb shove, but if you had raised pre, you might never have faced that shove to begin with.
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Old 01-31-2012, 02:24 PM   #7
DispelTheMyth
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Re: How to play with a big chip lead

Thanks for the advice all

I limped with 7's as the table was quite limpy or small raise and a few calls, also one of these limpers raised over pot when they caught something such as top pair or 2 pair so i was set mining, maybe i should have raised 2.5x and potentially got folds. I was also UTG+1 on a 9 man table.

In terms of the shove, after he showed his bluff he most certainly would not have done it as he was bricking me calling him after i didnt fold for a minute (i was thinking too much about the cards to even think of looking for tells and im sure he looked weak), he ended up having 83s
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