Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
How do you play Top Pair hands OOP How do you play Top Pair hands OOP

04-12-2021 , 10:59 AM
Let's say that I open called some one with KQ on the bb and the flop comes 7Q6. What line would you take?
Here is the actual hand:
    PokerStars - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
    Hand converted by Holdem Manager 3

    UTG: $5.66 (113.2 bb)
    CO: $5.00 (100 bb)
    BTN: $11.16 (223.2 bb)
    SB: $5.09 (101.8 bb)
    Hero (BB): $8.01 (160.2 bb)

    SB posts $0.02, Hero posts BB $0.05

    Pre Flop: (pot: $0.07) Hero has Q K
    fold, CO raises to $0.15, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.10

    Flop: ($0.32, 2 players) 7 Q 6
    Hero checks, CO checks

    Turn: ($0.32, 2 players) T
    Hero bets $0.21, CO raises to $0.42, Hero calls $0.21

    River: ($1.16, 2 players) Q
    Hero checks, CO bets $0.73, Hero calls $0.73



    My question is how do you play these type of hands when oop and you were not the aggresor pre

    Last edited by King Spew; 04-12-2021 at 11:27 AM. Reason: removed results
    How do you play Top Pair hands OOP Quote
    04-12-2021 , 12:14 PM
    Alarm bells start to go off when we get clicked back OTT, given that hit pretty much every draw in the book, seems fine to that point. Let me guess, villain had a flush or straight, and you're wondering if we should have donked the flop to try to force them out?
    How do you play Top Pair hands OOP Quote
    04-12-2021 , 12:46 PM
    This is a perfect hand to 3bet pre, go study some BB 3bet ranges!

    There is no one way to play "these types of hands"
    It depends on your actual hand, your position, villains position, stack size, type of villain, board texture and probably some other stuff.

    I'm not sure if we should be betting this turn.
    It's a pretty horrible card, but then again we can get plenty of value from worse.
    I'd probably bet but size down to like 33-50% pot.

    Think you played it fine, other than the call pre.

    Against bad and/or nitty opponents we can probably fold to the big river bet.
    There's really nothing worse betting here that we beat except for bluffs.
    As a general rule, people don't bluff often enough so over-folding is fine.

    I would 3bet pre.

    I'd bet flop at micros, since people will just call too often and there's probably no need to protect your checking range.
    Against better opponents I think this is a great hand to check to protect our checking range.

    As played I'd bet the turn smaller, the big sizing is turning our hand into a bad bluff since nothing worse is calling often but everything better is.

    As played I'd call the turn click-back, I'm never folding to that but that might be a leak.
    I'd fold to the river bet since we're not beating any value bets.

    I don't think you're making a huge mistake by calling the river though.
    Your sizing on the turn might be a pretty big mistake.

    You should be posting these hands here:
    https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/6...-stakes-pl-nl/

    Last edited by Yeodan; 04-12-2021 at 01:01 PM.
    How do you play Top Pair hands OOP Quote
    04-12-2021 , 03:32 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sixfour
    Alarm bells start to go off when we get clicked back OTT, given that hit pretty much every draw in the book, seems fine to that point. Let me guess, villain had a flush or straight, and you're wondering if we should have donked the flop to try to force them out?
    He shows AA. And yes, I was wondering if donking the flop was a good idea
    How do you play Top Pair hands OOP Quote
    04-12-2021 , 03:49 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Yeodan
    This is a perfect hand to 3bet pre, go study some BB 3bet ranges!

    There is no one way to play "these types of hands"
    It depends on your actual hand, your position, villains position, stack size, type of villain, board texture and probably some other stuff.

    I'm not sure if we should be betting this turn.
    It's a pretty horrible card, but then again we can get plenty of value from worse.
    I'd probably bet but size down to like 33-50% pot.

    Think you played it fine, other than the call pre.

    Against bad and/or nitty opponents we can probably fold to the big river bet.
    There's really nothing worse betting here that we beat except for bluffs.
    As a general rule, people don't bluff often enough so over-folding is fine.

    I would 3bet pre.

    I'd bet flop at micros, since people will just call too often and there's probably no need to protect your checking range.
    Against better opponents I think this is a great hand to check to protect our checking range.

    As played I'd bet the turn smaller, the big sizing is turning our hand into a bad bluff since nothing worse is calling often but everything better is.

    As played I'd call the turn click-back, I'm never folding to that but that might be a leak.
    I'd fold to the river bet since we're not beating any value bets.

    I don't think you're making a huge mistake by calling the river though.
    Your sizing on the turn might be a pretty big mistake.

    You should be posting these hands here:
    https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/6...-stakes-pl-nl/
    Well...Maybe I am wrong, but he can be betting the river with AA,KK,QJ. OTR I need 28% to break even and when I put all of the vil's possible hands(overs, trips, boat, straights, and some flushes). I have about 30 %.
    Too close to call maybe
    How do you play Top Pair hands OOP Quote
    04-12-2021 , 03:54 PM
    In general you should never donk the flop until you're a pretty advanced player who has actually studied theory about flop donking. And this is a flop we should never donk anyway. For beginner and intermediate players, I think "never donk the flop" is a good rule of thumb.

    3betting pre is reasonable but the flat is also fine. I agree with the others that the turn size seems a bit weird, but with the Qc it definitely seems fine and we have to flat the raise. River x/c seems fine.

    I'm on board with your line here. Villain's line with AA is terrible, he has a very clear xback otr and the turn mr is also very weird.

    Edit because I was typing this while you were posting: villain should never be betting hands like KK, AA here otr. I do agree with you that you win vs QJ or maybe even some weaker Qxs combos.
    How do you play Top Pair hands OOP Quote
    04-12-2021 , 05:21 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by invet
    Well...Maybe I am wrong, but he can be betting the river with AA,KK,QJ. OTR I need 28% to break even and when I put all of the vil's possible hands(overs, trips, boat, straights, and some flushes). I have about 30 %.
    Too close to call maybe
    AA, KK probably even QJ shouldn't be checking the flop and definitely shouldn't be raising the turn or betting this large on the river.
    How do you play Top Pair hands OOP Quote
    04-13-2021 , 04:57 AM
    Let's say that he made cbet otf. What do we do ?
    How do you play Top Pair hands OOP Quote
    04-13-2021 , 06:18 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by invet
    Let's say that he made cbet otf. What do we do ?
    Why would we start donking turn on a horrible card?
    How do you play Top Pair hands OOP Quote
    04-13-2021 , 10:10 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by invet
    Let's say that he made cbet otf. What do we do ?
    Well, folding TP should be out of the question.

    No matter if we call or raise, the turn card is a pretty bad one. So we should act accordingly.
    How do you play Top Pair hands OOP Quote
    04-14-2021 , 04:18 AM
    Quote:
    Let's say that he made cbet otf. What do we do ?
    Call down.

    Generally I would have preferred a raise pre and then just check-call till the end (though after the turn I would not have been very happy about it). If he checks the turn value bet river.
    How do you play Top Pair hands OOP Quote

          
    m