How big of a blunder was this? - Beginning Poker Questions

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How big of a blunder was this?

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03-22-2019 , 09:42 AM

Lyamani

centurion

Join Date: Feb 2019 Posts: 157

Snowie tells me it was a bad move to fold, but even against a hand like 26o I only got 33% equity. Against any K i only got 18% at best(K3). Would you make the call and see a river? No reads on the villain.

Let me please know your thinking. Mine might be flawed.

partypoker, Hold'em No Limit - $0.02/$0.05 - 4 players
Hand delivered by Upswing Poker

UTG: $5.81 (116 bb)
BU: $9.73 (195 bb)
SB (Hero): $5.26 (105 bb)
BB: $5.15 (103 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.07) Hero is SB with Q♠ A♠
2 players fold, Hero raises to $0.15, BB calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.30) 6♠ 3♣ K♠ (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $0.21, Hero calls $0.21

Turn: ($0.72) 4♥ (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $0.51, SB (Hero) folds

Total pot: $0.72 (Rake: $0.03)
BB wins $0.69

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03-22-2019 , 10:35 AM

Spacerat65

centurion

Join Date: Feb 2019 Posts: 176

as played i think the fold is alright. you pretty much mentioned that your opponent has Kx here so in drawing to the flush or calling down is a losing proposition long term when we know our opponent is already ahead. but i think you missplayed the hand.

the flop is pretty good for your hand you have the flush draw so id almost always cbet that board, then double barrel at the turn.

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03-22-2019 , 11:14 AM

Fatboy54

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 3,876

Hand is butchered and your NLHE knowledge is negligible. Get your head in a decent primer and start learning.

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03-22-2019 , 11:42 AM

Lyamani

centurion

Join Date: Feb 2019 Posts: 157

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fatboy54

Hand is butchered and your NLHE knowledge is negligible. Get your head in a decent primer and start learning.

Your comment is ****e. You're not saying what I did wrong or how I should've played it, instead you just tell me my play is "negligible". Which doesn't help, except make me feel bad. If you're not knowledgeable enough to tell me what I did wrong and what I should've done instead, I'd rather not have you respond to my questions. Second time today you answer a question of mine with a non-answer.

I know my play is questionable, that's why I am here, this is Beginners ffs.
Please, don't answer my threads anymore, I would appreciate it.

Last edited by Lyamani; 03-22-2019 at 11:48 AM.

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03-22-2019 , 12:21 PM

Lyamani

centurion

Join Date: Feb 2019 Posts: 157

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spacerat65

Almost always? How would that ever be profitable? What about balancing your range? I feel like a check there is fine most of the time. Why inflate the pot, he checks back so often it's more profitable to just check check and bet turn. Most of the time he has nothing, he would just check back. How often does he turn his hand into a bluff there? Not as often you'd think on such a flop.

If I bet, I get most weaker hands to fold, K combos remain. Then I'd just be feeding the pot with 20% equity by the turn. Even some of his bluffy hands, would get me in trouble.

Snowie agrees, and elects for betting only 11% of the time.

I am happy you agree with my fold

Last edited by Lyamani; 03-22-2019 at 12:34 PM.

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03-22-2019 , 01:24 PM

Didace

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 19,863

Why did you check the flop?

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03-22-2019 , 01:49 PM

madlex

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 17,409

Checking the flop is fine, sometimes we probably should c/r though?

If we decide to check/call the flop and check the turn, we need a solid “nit” or “very passive” read to check/fold the turn. Are we in bad shape against Kx? Yes, but we have 12 outs. Are we behind 62o? Yes, but we have 15 outs. Are we way ahead of T9o and a gazillion other hands? Yes. Can he have those? Of course, all he did was call preflop IP which he should do with a very wide range and barrel postflop against somebody who appears weak. Without reads, we have to call the turn and might face a serious decision on the river if we brick and he fires again.

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03-22-2019 , 02:00 PM

Didace

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 19,863

I was wondering what his plan was. If it was to check call the flop, what was he going to do on the turn? What would the turn need to be if he was going to continue?

It seems to me that in the hands he is posting (and this is just an impression, I haven't looked that closely) he is playing street by street without a plan.

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03-22-2019 , 02:01 PM

Fatboy54

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 3,876

Quote:

Second time today you answer a question of mine with a non-answer.

Nope, second time today I told you the truth. And I gave you the serious advice you asked for, which is to get a decent primer (I recommend The Grinders Manual) and learn from it.

Posting random hands with random thoughts in here will teach you nothing as you do not know which posters are giving you good advice and which are giving you bad, with so little actual NLHE basics currently in your knowledge bank.

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Please, don't answer my threads anymore, I would appreciate it.

No sweat...I have no interest in advising anyone who is not interested in a frank opinion, honestly given.

good luck anyway.

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03-22-2019 , 03:28 PM

#10

ArtyMcFly

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 13,256

Don't fold the turn. By checking twice, you give villain the incentive to bet twice with hands like 6x or 54s, worse Ax, or a flush draw that you're actually crushing. Indeed, one of the reasons for checking the flop in the first place is that your hand has SDV and good equity vs villain's bluffing range, so you almost always want to at least see the river.

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03-22-2019 , 09:24 PM

#11

browni3141

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 5,678

Never folding turn this after taking your line. You have a draw to the nuts, hitting a pair gives you a decent hand, and you have a chance to win showdown unimproved.

Flop check is fine in theory and auto c-betting every flush draw is a leak. Betting may be better because people tend to over-fold to flop bets, especially in wide-range spots.

You usually don't want to consider your equity vs. pot odds when deciding whether or not to continue vs. a bet unless you're facing an all-in.

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03-24-2019 , 09:07 AM

#12

PokerPlayingGamble

Dispute Unresolved

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 4,669

I don't think it's a big mistake. Your flush is pretty unlikely to hit, you could get bluffed off A hi on the river, you might have reverse implied odds if you hit a pair, and you are not getting a great price. Calling will probably not show a big profit.

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03-24-2019 , 11:45 AM

#13

madlex

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 17,409

Quote:

Originally Posted by PokerPlayingGamble

On the flop, our hand should have a decent equity advantage over villains range. The turn doesn’t help us but is by no means a really bad card for us. What happend that made us go from solid favorites to not being able to call getting 2.5:1?

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03-24-2019 , 12:48 PM

#14

Kelvis

banned

Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 8,737

Get your head in a decent primer and start learning.

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03-24-2019 , 02:12 PM

#15

moxiepilot

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 355

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03-25-2019 , 08:53 PM

#16

PokerPlayingGamble

Dispute Unresolved

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 4,669

Quote:

What happend that made us go from solid favorites to not being able to call getting 2.5:1?

I didn't say we can't call, or that calling won't show a profit, I said that I didn't think folding was a BIG mistake (OP's question), ergo that calling wouldn't show a large profit. But our draw is in significantly worse shape on the turn, because on the flop we have the possibility of getting paid off (in exponentially larger amounts) on two streets, and the possibility of getting a free card (two streets for the price of one) on the turn. Villain has also shown more strength at this point, making it less likely that we win without a flush.

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03-25-2019 , 11:17 PM

#17

loafes

grinder

Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 513

I’d be calling here. We win if we make our flush, we have reasonable chance of being good on an ace or even queen but bear in mind villain can easily bet with a huge range, including hands we crush like 5x or weaker flush draws. A lot of rivers will go check check so we should realise most of our equity.

In isolation the fold is never going to be that big of a mistake however in terms of our entire range we open ourselves to a lot of exploitation when we c/c c/f hands this kind of hand. We protect our range here by having stronger hands in our c/c range as well making villain lose money when he barrls too much

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04-02-2019 , 06:51 AM

#18

ToiletBowler

adept

Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 1,144

You should call/raise because:

1. his bluffs boost your equity vs his betting range
2. he can have a worse FD which gives you extra implieds
3. Ofc you can still improve, and he can bluff when you do.

If he turns his cards face up and you can see you are against K3, of course you can fold. Or raise if you think he can fold it.

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04-03-2019 , 02:23 PM

#19

Yadula

newbie

Join Date: Apr 2019 Posts: 41

I like the play, up until the fold. I'd have called it for sure.

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04-03-2019 , 06:51 PM

#20

D_fish

centurion

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 137

I don’t know why you are assuming villain has Kx. Think about his range BvB.

Bet flop. Nut flush and overcard. Villain has Kx, 6x, 2x, worse flush draws, pairs, may float other random crap.

Bet turn as large range as above.

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