Hi,

First-time poster and poker newbie, so go easy on me and please forgive any breach of forum rules or protocol.

I'm new to poker and have started to play a small NLHE tournament that a local pub runs weekly. It's usually 2-3 tables with between 6-9 players at a table. First week I sat out a lot of hands early to get a feel for the players at the table and it became clear that these guys were willing to get chips in with anything...and I do mean anything! I ended up playing tight, opening with premium holdings and getting chips in when I hit flops. I ran hot and won the tournament first time there - happy days!

Last night we played again and I adopted the same strategy as the previous week, opening with premium hands when in position, folding everything else and building the pot when I hit flops. Except I didn't...couldn't hit a thing! I C-Bet/double-barrelled with over cards only to be raised out of the pot on the turn by people holding things like J3o. By playing super-tight, I ran through to 7th place with everyone knocking each other out along the way, but was short stacked and forced to shove QTo with blinds killing my stack.

So how should I be playing against a table full of aggressive players, in lots of multi-way pots in a tournament format with blind increases every 30-40mins when I'm not hitting anything on the flop or beyond? Should I be looking to get more in pre-flop? I've been raising 3xBB pre-flop and occassionally a bit more if there are limpers (and there are always limpers!).

Any help would be greatly appreciated..

well, I'm not much of a tournament player, but I think running a tight solid strategy like yours sounds like, especially against a large field of loose aggressive players, leaves you more at the mercy of luck. If you can't catch enough premium hands in position the whole tournament, you just don't have a chance of winning. so you're strategy is actually more luck dependent if you think about it. you can't be too afraid to get to some of the cheaper flops and beat them with superior post-flop play. so I guess my first tip would be to open your hand range further in position. the more players there are in the pot and the cheaper it is for you to enter, the more hands you can play as long as you don't fear raises from the blinds. if you're getting 4+:1 odds in a pot with no raises and no fear of raises from behind, even hands like 57o or 69o can justify a call if your stack is still deep enough. In these situations draw hands go up in value where as big pair hands like A8o or K9o go down in value because of the likelihood of being up against 2 pair against so many players to the flop. with this strategy you will take down very few pots, but the pots you do take down will usually be huge. My 2nd tip would be to bet your premium hands bigger for value preflop. don't be afraid to bet your premium hands in any position even up to 10x against a single open raise or limper regardless of your stack size. If you're raising premium hands but still seeing 3 or more villains to the flop you have a big problem. You'd be surprised how much your equity drops even with AA when your facing one opponent as opposed to 3. You want to be heads up with these hands. You can lose a lot of money with these hands in multi way pots even if you play them correctly. Experiment with your bet sizes and see how cheaply you can get your desired results. This may take some practice to get the hang of. Also, the fish will eventually figure out what you are doing and adjust which means eventually you will have to adjust again to them. This may take more than 1 tournament to happen but it will happen eventually. But cross that bridge when you get there.

Oh, P.S. be realistic about your winning expectations. Luck is a huge factor no matter what in tournaments. You're not always going to win. It depends on how the tournament is structured but if you're pulling north of 25% ROI you should be very happy with those results.

You won in a tournament and then got 7th place in another? It sounds like your strategy is working.

You should probably keep doing what was working and then not trying to bluff when you know you will be called

Tl; dr. Generally you 3! them pre with your premiums and value bet. Be prepared to call for stacks with holdings you wouldn't normally, like top pair.

in the early stages, play tight preflop and just play fit or fold, never make a bet without top pair or better (yes, DO NOT CONTINUATION BET WHEN YOU MISS). Most of the time you won't hit anything and you'll lose, but then again, in vast majority of tournaments you play you will lose.

Learn how to play shortstack well, players like that tend to make massive mistakes with short stacks, interestingly enough they actually tend to play too tight when short, so you can collect of dead money by shoving/reshoving.

Also, remember, with how slow live poker is, it is entirely possible that you don't play a single hand before you are shortstacked - it doesn't mean you are playing extremely tight, it just means that you were not getting any good hands. There is nothing you can do about that, just keep folding (and then start shoving wide with <15bb).

raise bigger on the flop if your going to double barrel.
start check-raising bluffing.

meet aggression with more aggression. get in there and gamble.

As a beginner at these kind of NLH bar games your approach is just fine. Over time you can tweak your game as you learn. BTW absolutely nothing works all the time or even most of the time. Normal poker variance combined with players who play too loose , quick structures and your own lack of experience, makes for lots of bad outcomes. Right now if you cash 3 times out of 10 and final table 1 time out of 10 you are doing all right at these kind of events.

Do this if you don't like winning

This, it almost seems like that is the same guy that got banned for trolling this past week

agreed with other posters. this is a terrible idea. there is ZERO need to bluff against opponents who are practically guaranteed to pay you off anyways when you do have the best of it. this can only get you into trouble. i do like the idea of bigger flop bets when you intend to double barrel, WHEN YOU HAVE A MADE HAND. the only spot in games like these that could(not necessarily should, flop texture is everything) justify a bluff is if you managed to isolate a fish with strong preflop action with something like AK/AQs and the flop missed you. in this case you could fire a one and done, but no more. with 2 or more opponents to the flop in games like these any kind of bluffing is out of the question.

a real troll would just shove it all in 800bb deep with 72o.

This whole post was Fantastic.
I played in these 20 dollar buy in tournaments a few years ago.
Still do once in a blue moon. The blinds went up every 15 minutes!
Most people who play in these things are there for socializing and fun.
The money doesn't mean much to them.
There was this on guy(and still is, I guess), who would basically go all in with most Ax hands or go all in when he hit the flop. Not always, but he played real fast. Everybody hated him and thought he was the biggest donk.
Well, he busted early most times, but, at the end of each month, he also won the most times.
Go figure. It's not serious poker OP anyway Op, so don't stress too much over it.

i havent read the posts yet but i'd rather sit to the right of a maniac

With 30-40 min levels you should have plenty of time to wait for cards. The solid approach works - but it leaves you at the mercy of luck (ironically) because:

If the others are just shoving chips around then you'll eventually nail them. The longer they all have close to average stacks the better. However, if some of them hit the extreme tail of the luck distribution they'll chip up to a point where they'll have a massive cheap lead over you come the end. In that situation the edge of solid play may not be large enough to offset the chip advantage.

So you'll find both schools of thought: Those who advocate the 'safe' approach and almost always making the money but rarely get to the very top spots...or those that risk busting out early often for the chance of hitting it big once in a while.
Depending on payout structure (flat vs steep) one or the other can be overall more profitable.

This is also my opinion ... but for cash ... no choice of seats in a tournament!

So week one you are a genius and week two you're looking for a better approach? How did you adjust your play when stacks got bigger and you were short-handed?

It's pretty easy to stay solid when your a newbie and the deck is hitting you. Now the meta game starts with each following week as Players try to press your buttons and your own thoughts wander a bit when the deck isn't so nice!! That's what is great about poker.

IMO when you are dealing with maniacs, and hopefully not a 'full' table of them, is to keep pots smaller until the Turn/River where you can become more comfortable with the strength of your holding and let them lead the action, especially when OOP. Yes, there may be some free cards and suck-outs but they shouldn't hurt as much in the smaller pots. You can then take control when IP on Turn or Donk out the River ... spoiling their fun!!

Obviously in a tournament the blinds will eventually force the action and they 'WILL' use their stack to press their luck if you are short and have the more predicable range. GL

Regarding the tourney part, it's not entirely true. In the pub poker I play, you get to pick your seat. Heck, the last tourney at a casino I played in we got to choose our seats at the final table!

This is how I adjust vs a verified maniac:

eliminate low equity bluffs from my preflop and postflop betting and raising ranges. If I choose to bet a draw because it's so strong that it can withstand big action, then I bet those draws 100% of the time. I loosen up with value hands by betting a bit smaller than I would vs a better player. The effect is that my betting ranges are strengthened to the point that I can almost always at least bet call vs the maniac. On occasion, you can even bet to induce a bluff raise with hands that would be easy checks vs a better opponent; this is particularly true on the river in very asymmetric range situations.

HUD , know what you want to do after you 3bet pre, check call, c.bet, get stacks in flop etc etc

If you play to get 1st take gambles so you can build big stack we’re you can raise and get lots of folds pre.

Did you even read the original post which says he's playing live?

really interesting way of explaining a conclusion that i feel about.

one thing that's been in my focus against chaos-players is not betting their hands for them. if i get stacked by them so be it, but if looking back at the hand history i see that i made their decision making easy it grinds my gears.

Gottamake some hands