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Old 07-05-2018, 06:04 PM   #1
cigarmanpa
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this hand is still bothering me

Playing 1/3 at a local casino, effective stack is 88$ I'm in the SB with around $150 after buying in for $200. Table is 10 handed I'm dealt ATo I don't remember the suits as this was quite a while ago. 3 callers and it comes to me. I raise to $10 and the BB shoves for $88 action folds to me.

What is the proper call here? I've been thinking two things. First, I don't have to face anymore bets so maybe I call and hope for the best. But, I'm also thinking that ATo isn't the best hand to chase with and I'm probably behind already. Back then I didn't know about equity and things like that, I was only playing for 6-8 months at that time in a home game. The BB told me what he had, allegedly. But I'll hold that for later in the discussion.
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Old 07-05-2018, 06:16 PM   #2
amarri
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Re: this hand is still bothering me

Well if you put him on 77 to AA and include AKs AQs AJs and AKo he is a 64% favorite.
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Old 07-05-2018, 06:18 PM   #3
Kelvis
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Re: this hand is still bothering me

Didn't even read the thread yet and my response was "fold pre".

Having read it, what was the goal making it $10? I don't even care what happened after that because this is the decision you need to focus on.
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Old 07-05-2018, 06:19 PM   #4
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Re: this hand is still bothering me

You are getting about 1.25 to 1 to hit a 2 to 1 shot so you are - Ev
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Old 07-05-2018, 06:28 PM   #5
cigarmanpa
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Re: this hand is still bothering me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvis View Post
Didn't even read the thread yet and my response was "fold pre".

Having read it, what was the goal making it $10? I don't even care what happened after that because this is the decision you need to focus on.
Not knowing exactly what I was doing and hoping to fold out some lower connectors?
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Old 07-05-2018, 06:29 PM   #6
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Re: this hand is still bothering me

I mean there are 3 limptards so there is like $13 in the pot and you make it $7 more while everyone else is in position against you. You're not going to fold out anything. People are getting close to 3:1 on a call.
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Old 07-05-2018, 06:30 PM   #7
cigarmanpa
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Re: this hand is still bothering me

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I mean there are 3 limptards so there is like $13 in the pot and you make it $7 more while everyone else is in position against you. You're not going to fold out anything.
I understand that now. At the time, I didn't.
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Old 07-05-2018, 06:33 PM   #8
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Re: this hand is still bothering me

In the meanwhile you're getting 1,37:1 on a call which means you need 42% equity to call. Unless he is somehow shoving hands like KJo you're not going to get there. But I guess he told you he had two eights.
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Old 07-05-2018, 06:35 PM   #9
cigarmanpa
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Re: this hand is still bothering me

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In the meanwhile you're getting 1,37:1 on a call which means you need 42% equity to call. Unless he is somehow shoving hands like KJo you're not going to get there. But I guess he told you he had two eights.
He told me he had kings. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't, but that's what he told me.
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Old 07-05-2018, 06:45 PM   #10
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Re: this hand is still bothering me

Then he had two kings like 95%+ of the time. Almost nobody is confident enough to lie during the hand.
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Old 07-05-2018, 06:54 PM   #11
cigarmanpa
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Re: this hand is still bothering me

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Then he had two kings like 95%+ of the time. Almost nobody is confident enough to lie during the hand.
He told me after the hand. I should have been more clear.
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Old 07-05-2018, 06:56 PM   #12
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Re: this hand is still bothering me

Even then, people don't lie.
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Old 07-05-2018, 06:57 PM   #13
cigarmanpa
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Re: this hand is still bothering me

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Even then, people don't lie.
I have. I lie to my friends in a .25/.50 home game
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Old 07-05-2018, 07:04 PM   #14
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Re: this hand is still bothering me

What are the other players between you and the button like?
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Old 07-06-2018, 02:53 AM   #15
DumbosTrunk
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Re: this hand is still bothering me

A-10o is such a difficult hand to play post-flop as a beginner that I recommend simply folding it preflop every time, from every position. I am not exactly a beginner anymore and yet I still fold it nearly always. And you should never call a raise with it, and certainly not an all in from a short stack.
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Old 07-06-2018, 07:12 AM   #16
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Re: this hand is still bothering me

If you really want to raise pre, you need to make it bigger. There's $13 in the pot when the action reaches you, so you need to make it at least that amount, or no one will fold. I think you'd generally do better in that spot by overlimping, or just folding.
When villain jams, you should be snap-folding. Unless villain is going mental with a pocket pair lower than TT (e.g. you're almost flipping with 99), you're either worse than flipping (e.g. vs QQ), or you're crushed (by AK-AJ), and you're not getting good odds on a call.
Just generally speaking, ATo is a horrible hand to be calling all in pre unless you have less than 15bb.
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Old 07-06-2018, 08:14 AM   #17
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Re: this hand is still bothering me

Quote:
Originally Posted by DumbosTrunk View Post
A-10o is such a difficult hand to play post-flop as a beginner that I recommend simply folding it preflop every time, from every position. I am not exactly a beginner anymore and yet I still fold it nearly always. And you should never call a raise with it, and certainly not an all in from a short stack.
You might not be a beginner anymore, but if you canít profitably play hands like ATo from the BU vs. a loose CO open, BB vs. BU open or BB vs. SB open (let alone opening yourself from LP), you certainly have a postflop leak.
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Old 07-06-2018, 02:40 PM   #18
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Re: this hand is still bothering me

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You might not be a beginner anymore, but if you canít profitably play hands like ATo from the BU vs. a loose CO open, BB vs. BU open or BB vs. SB open (let alone opening yourself from LP), you certainly have a postflop leak.
Not to hijack the original thread (says someone about to do just that), but I did say "nearly always," so there are occasions where I will open A-10o in LP or overlimp behind a couple others. I mostly play 1/3 where many Vs do not adjust opening ranges by position, so 3! A-10o in the situations you mentioned could be suicidal.
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Old 07-06-2018, 03:39 PM   #19
cigarmanpa
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Re: this hand is still bothering me

feel free to hijack, I've had my question answered. I'd love to hear some new discussions and learn a few things
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Old 07-06-2018, 04:33 PM   #20
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Re: this hand is still bothering me

My preflop play here depends on the players behind.

3 limps to me with nits behind? I’m raising to $15.

With lags behind? I’m folding.

There are many situations between those two extremes that depend on where the 3 bet is likely to come from, and how many callers I expect to be in the mix and how they might react vs a 3 bet.

Usually it’s a mix of player type behind, but the dominant factor remains the 3 bet frequency behind. This is actually closely related to the reason we’re supposed to be very tight from early position; the more players there are behind the bigger the chances are that someone picks up a good hand.
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Old 07-06-2018, 04:51 PM   #21
PokerPlayingGamble
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Re: this hand is still bothering me

I prefer a complete pre, but having raised would probably fold. LRR is usually a pretty strong hand.
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Old 07-06-2018, 11:57 PM   #22
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Re: this hand is still bothering me

pretty much a complete 100% of time in this situation
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Old 07-07-2018, 01:26 AM   #23
WereBeer
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Re: this hand is still bothering me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvis View Post
Even then, people don't lie.
In the casino and after the hand, I usually lie about my hand if I even answer the question in an informative manner.
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Old 07-07-2018, 10:16 AM   #24
madlex
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Re: this hand is still bothering me

It’s totally irrelevant if he had KK or 72o though. The only question is if hero has 42% equity to call the shove and the answer to that is ‘probably not’.
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Old 07-07-2018, 05:16 PM   #25
cigarmanpa
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Re: this hand is still bothering me

forgive my ignorance, but lags?
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