Folding small pocket pairs (22-44) from CO in unopened pot. - Page 2 - Beginning Poker Questions

Yeah, a snap fold.

Calling there is lighting money on fire. You're risking $300 to win $5 (or less with rake) hoping you're not getting free-rolled which you almost always are if a non-braindead person shoves $300 into $10 there.

And it's not the "stone cold nuts" if someone could draw out to beat or chop with you.

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02-06-2019 , 04:28 AM

#28

Duncelanas

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Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 6,333

Quote:

Originally Posted by browni3141

Wrong.

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02-06-2019 , 05:02 AM

#29

browni3141

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Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 5,678

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duncelanas

Wrong.

Curious what you think somone’s range is who 30x pots on four to Broadway.

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02-06-2019 , 08:22 AM

#30

Duncelanas

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Quote:

Originally Posted by browni3141

Curious what you think somone’s range is who 30x pots on four to Broadway.

Who knows, but if they're fishy enough to do this I'm not folding the nut straight. And if they're sick enough to do this in a balanced way, I'm not folding the nut straight either.

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02-06-2019 , 02:52 PM

#31

browni3141

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Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 5,678

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duncelanas

Who knows, but if they're fishy enough to do this I'm not folding the nut straight. And if they're sick enough to do this in a balanced way, I'm not folding the nut straight either.

Of course, it depends on the scenario. A HU BvB pot at 2|5 is different than a 5-way limped pot at 1|2.

FWIW, our EV against all Tx is .4845*610-300 = -$4.455. In most conditions it will be worse because suited combos are more likely to be vpipped, and there is rake, and people are more likely to jam one of the hands that free-roll us than naked Tx.

Yes, it's a fishy shove, but every time I have seen something like this in a real game someone is trying to free-roll a sucker that can't fold the nuts.

If you're going to call with Tx without a flush draw, at least have a blocker to one of the free-rolls, although I'd still fold.

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02-07-2019 , 04:59 AM

#32

Fatboy54

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Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 3,876

Quote:

Because as a default you definitely shouldn't open all pp from all positions. You will lose money opening 22 utg at any stake online and at anything except a particularly limpy live table.

I get that this level of detail is missing from the guy who made the original "open all pp from all position statement", but if a a lack of detail automatically makes any post "terrible", you might as well just close BQ now.

"Not terrible advice" means something like "decent advice for standard play." Opening all pps from any position regardless is just bad advice for default play. It will lose you money and will probably build some bad habits into your game. The advice given isn't something that should be part of your standard game, period. It's not good advice. It's not about level of detail.

Sure, agreed all. But your original reply would have been some much more constructive if you had explained some of this, rather than just a one line "this is terrible", given at least two professional poker writers have written something similar about opening all pp, from ep, in the past. Not all posters in BQ are capable of writing short constructive posts...you are.

/fb out

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02-07-2019 , 08:19 AM

#33

Duncelanas

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Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 6,333

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fatboy54

You're not wrong, but I'm also not obligated to provide any particular level of detail when I feel like chiming in on a BQ thread. Sometimes I want to, sometimes I don't

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02-08-2019 , 03:31 AM

#34

loafes

grinder

Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 513

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iblis

Never fold the stone cold nuts.

I remember a few years ago a friend showing a hand history bvb that gets checked down and runs out to a royal flush which villain then jams IIRC hero was losing something like 30 cents to rake.

I mean he timebank called anyway because **** villain. But seems like a spot where folding the stone cold nuts is correct

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02-08-2019 , 04:53 AM

#35

hyperknit

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2016 Posts: 2,692

Quote:

Originally Posted by loafes

Lol it’s the prisoners dilemma 2.0

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02-08-2019 , 09:47 AM

#36

Iblis

veteran

Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 3,299

Quote:

Originally Posted by loafes

**** villain indeed, I'd rather lose money than make him autoprofit.

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02-11-2019 , 02:45 PM

#37

totalsoccer

newbie

Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 19

Quote:

Originally Posted by loafes

'
Is this the Godwin of poker? It starts with anything like 22-44 and it ends with a Royal Flush

Nice anecdote though

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02-12-2019 , 04:11 PM

#38

the_spike

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,615

Quote:

Originally Posted by browni3141

The stone cold nuts refers to a 100% equity hand. If there is a possible hand and runout you could lose or tie to then it’s not the stone cold nuts, just regular nuts.

I'm fine with that definition, but as you might or might not be aware, common usage is not always the same. For example
https://www.texasholdem-king.com/pok...one-cold-nuts/

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02-12-2019 , 04:15 PM

#39

the_spike

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,615

Quote:

Originally Posted by browni3141

Right.

My hypothetical, no real world example was going to be:

You have A

and the flop is K

Ts. The pot is $10 and your straightforward opponent shoves $10 million. Obviously you fold.

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02-12-2019 , 04:17 PM

#40

the_spike

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,615

Quote:

Originally Posted by hyperknit

Lol it’s the prisoners dilemma 2.0

yeah

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02-12-2019 , 04:20 PM

#41

the_spike

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,615

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duncelanas

You're not wrong, but I'm also not obligated to provide any particular level of detail when I feel like chiming in on a BQ thread. Sometimes I want to, sometimes I don't

I think his point was if you were willing to do it now, why not then? Otherwise these discussions are longer than they need to be, wasting more time than if it was answered better the first time. Having said that, this is all free advice, which is worth what you paid for it.

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02-12-2019 , 04:23 PM

#42

browni3141

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 5,678

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_spike

I'm fine with that definition, but as you might or might not be aware, common usage is not always the same. For example
https://www.texasholdem-king.com/pok...one-cold-nuts/

I wasn't sure what it meant either, so I also googled and found that page along with one or two others saying similar things. It's basically the same definition as mine, except that page seems to consider hands that can possibly chop "the stone cold nuts" as well.

Anyway, it is easy to figure out what the first poster meant when he said "stone cold nuts," IMO.

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