I'm wondering if there's any spots we should be folding the nuts in omaha, just ran into this hand below. I raised pf on the CO, button calls, bb calls. bet flop, got raised, then reraised from bb, I shove, 2 callers. Although I had the nuts on the flop I was being severely out-drawn. In the future, should I be folding a portion of these if I'm not drawing to anything?

my hand is the top one btw

You flopped a flush. But not near the nuts.

??? I highly doubt anyone ever flops a flush on a non-monotone board?

He flopped the straight, 45 on a 367 board.

If you can fold that or not depends on players and most importantly stack sizes.

stacks were 200bb each roughly, unknown v's on zoom game

UGH, didn't see clubs for any of them...they all look like spades for all of the shown cards. My mistake.

lol happens to me whenever im watching videos too...

This is how 4 color decks were born.

And hand converters for that matter

Of course you can't know what they have while you're playing the hand, but you're a pretty big dog vs their specific hands.

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=11494639
pokenum -o jc jd 4s 5d - as 3s kh 7c - 8s 9s 6d td -- 7s 6s 3c
Omaha Hi: 666 enumerated boards containing 7s 6s 3c
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
4s Jc Jd 5d 142 21.32 524 78.68 0 0.00 0.213
As 3s 7c Kh 237 35.59 429 64.41 0 0.00 0.356
9s 8s Td 6d 287 43.09 379 56.91 0 0.00 0.431

Change the hand to your left from nut flush draw to a set (just as likely considering the action) and you're even a bigger dog.

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=11494640
pokenum -o jc jd 4s 5d - as 7h kh 7c - 8s 9s 6d td -- 7s 6s 3c
Omaha Hi: 666 enumerated boards containing 7s 6s 3c
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
4s Jc Jd 5d 103 15.47 563 84.53 0 0.00 0.155
As 7c Kh 7h 200 30.03 466 69.97 0 0.00 0.300
9s 8s Td 6d 363 54.50 303 45.50 0 0.00 0.545

That kind of actions OTF in PLO usually indicate bigger draws with redraws, so your low str8 with no redraws goes way down in value.

I'd probably fold a hand this weak pre, unless I had nits in the blinds. But nits don't tend to play PLO.

nitpick on the positioning. If you are CO...then there needs to be a folded hand
between button and bb....

I think PF is a raise or fold depending on villains. I don't find a ton of folders PF in a steal situation so....mostly fold with this weak pair+garbage hand.

Yeah, was thinking why are we raising this junk pre

cuz im super baller aggro plo snipe show

You forgot to include "who has no clue what constitutes a nutted hand" -your holding was nowhere NEAR the nuts, as pointed out by another poster in the thread.

But to answer the question, yes that is absolutely a foldable holding.

Uh, yes it was, the flop was 7 6 3, so a 7-high straight was the nuts at the time.

His error was not recognizing from the action that he was a huge dog with 2 cards to come. Almost a 4:1 dog, to be exact.

Which is the exact point of the question in the thread. Often in PLO, folding the current nuts OTF is the correct course of action.

on the picture it seems like there are 3 spades on the board, hence the confusion I guess

re subject, yes, there are some spots in plo where you might want to fold flopped nuts, but they are rare and very situation dependant

alright good to know. thanks.

I honestly don’t get it. Multiple people in this thread have pointed out that he does have the nuts on the flop. What hands can beat the nut straight on a two tone non-paired board? Do some people have a specific pattern to decide which posts to read and which ones to ignore?
I think this one here is one. Pot was single raised pre, so we’re probably talking about 8-11BB in the pot on the flop with remaining stacks of 200BB.

100BB deep, hero needs only 29-30% equity to get it in and should have that pretty often if villains aren’t nits. 200BB deep, GII ranges are probably significantly tighter.

I don't view any holding as 'the nuts' when it is simply the flop and there are far more coordinated holdings likely to 'get there' by the river. And OP did not qualify it as 'at that time.' It is and was a weak holding that was not likely to hold up.

Quite frankly, it isn't a hand I would even have been in the pot with to begin with at a full table (tournament OR cash) but, in this scenario, I also am not investing another chip with OP's holding and would have precisely ZERO qualms about ditching it in the face of aggression.

Are we going to invent new words now? The term is pretty well defined and unfortunately for you it disagrees with you. If you want to use the term incorrectly, you're going to be corrected.

Yea this was good spot to fold nuts with 200bb deep.100bb deep would change situation.

The thread title says "folding the nuts otf". Everybody knows he's talking about the nut hand on the flop. You need at least a straight flush to flop an unbeatable hand, so using your definition we see the flopped nuts maybe once a year? And why would anyone make a thread about folding an unbeatable hand anyway?

No idea how much PLO strategy you talk, but mulitway spots where one player flops a straight or flush and others have high equity (re)draws are pretty common and the strongest hand possible at the moment is always referred to as "the nuts".

OK .. this could go a lot of different ways once we get past 'the nuts' conversation.

1) Are you betting for, value or protection?
2) What are your opponents expecting you to have when you do c-bet?
3) What range of hands are your opponents calling with PF?

I'm not a PLO expert but getting a little better each session. What are your scare cards here? Any card between 3 and T and spades, so you are looking at about 35 scare cards with 2 to go, yikes!

I'm not saying you shouldn't bet out here because in PLO you probably should bet out when you think/know you're ahead/chopping. But to now be facing all that action with only 1-2 blockers and little hope of improving (runner-runner FH) you pretty much have to assume that 'a lot' of the 35ish bad cards are still in that stub!!

Even if you want to consider that your opponents might be sharing cards/outs AND they probably don't think that you really hit this Board I do think a touch of cautious consideration here isn't a bad thing. There are plenty of times where 'the nuts' on the Flop is garbage by the River in PLO. GL

PS .. I think you get a slightly different viewpoint if you are holding the 67 on 345 Board since the amount of 'next' card straights is about 60% less.

Playing 6-card omaha, live more so, it is worth to consider when flopping the nuts. Not raising the turn without the backdoor is already worth to consider in all omahas, although I am not shy to do so, if I decide to raise at all, and one thinks similarly on the flop (when opting to just call, then this question does come up sometimes). Folding hands for too much action on the flop is a normal play (mediocre hand with a mediocre draw 3-ways, maybe not heads up, but not necessarily a good raise), but folding the nuts on the flop, I don't think so.

Don’t know if this was mentioned but getting in that deep you also have to consider the probability you’re being free rolled by someone who already has the straight. It really comes down to your opponents tendencies. As a beginner you shouldn’t try to soul read too much but there are times when its best not to bloat the pot with no redraw

the better the players against you and the deeper you are determine how often you fold these.

if you can see their hands before you get committed than it is an easy choice.