3 handed on the ft 1st:$3.6k 2nd:$2.4k 3rd:$1.4k
we’re low stack in the sb with 8bbs, BB has 50bbs and button has 22bbs, with a bb ante
hand goes; Button folds, Hero in SB QTss All in, BB folds,
Big blind has been getting lucky but also putting a lot of pressure on my actions by raising a lot and almost always had it.
My question here is can we ever make the case for a bvb or (2-3.5x) with QTss or limp and inducing the cl to shove towards the 8bb short stack, hoping to get it in? I couldn’t find anyone suggesting either when I searched for the scenario, but I think he’s going to be folding most of his defending range to a open shove and calling a 2-3.5x raise with a lot worse with 50% range, and I think he’ll jam to a 8bb limp a lot too as he has been several times when Hero had 20bbs in a smallish sample size with more jams than checking to a limp bvb and he raises 2.5x bvb to a sb limp about 20% of the time.

I think it’s a good shove.

Standard jam

At 8 BB and this stack distribution, your only viable options are shove/fold, and if you don't shove here, you have to shove A2C OTB next hand.

I have a limping range here.

My shoving range with 8bb on the button 3 handed in the money is <100%.

Not me. I'm not putting any additional money in the pot with any intention of folding, especially with a BB ante.

If he folds the SB, limp fold the button, that leaves him with 4.5 BB after posting the next hand.

I'm trying to take whatever fold equity I have now.

QTs is a trivial shove here, so if he wins the blinds and antes in this spot, he can have a reasonable fold range next hand OTB, though I'd still rather not limp.

At some point, you have to stop waiting for that mythic "better spot" and just gamble.

I never suggested limping the button. Op was in the small blind.

Perhaps you should reconsider this stance. I think you're missing calling value in the small blind.

I never say never. I can think of some situations where this might be reasonable, but it would be completely opponent dependent.

you're getting 9:1. I think having an empty calling range is the adjustment vs a very loose aggressive big blind; having a calling range is default.

Three-handed and 8bbs you need to take chances. Most of the time taking chances means shoving any two cards. But, sometimes the chance you take is limping and either calling the BB shove or, if you see a flop, shoving anything that remotely connects with you.

I think blind vs blind play is a bit more nuanced than that(though maybe not in this specific spot with 4.5 big blinds in the pot already). When I limp and they shove(happens a lot), the minimum defense frequency is typically pretty low(the smaller my stack, the more I need to call). In a 5 big blind pot + 8bb on top = about 38.5% call frequency minimum if I calculated correctly. In a more typical blind structure with 8bb: 1.8bb pot + 8bb on top = about 18.4% minimum defense.

The question then you gotta ask yourself is which strong hands to limp call? Think about the extremes: 100% all in baby(they exist) = limp the very best hands and nothing else, calling 100% of the time(mdf be damned vs them), shove hands that are too strong to fold but too weak to limp call (I'm thinking of medium pocket pairs and Q9s etc). the other extreme is 0% all in tight player = limp lots of stuff, I mean lots of stuff, but shove hands that would miss value vs a 100% expected check, fold a few hands too but not many.

Vs everyone in the middle? you gotta play poker ldo.

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after I limp and they check, I play quite passively compared to what many believe to be correct. I evaluate every flop independently as a function of the ranges and the way they interact. It's wide range stuff, but the fundamentals still apply. middle pair is a solid shove on some boards, and top pair is a check on other flops. Vs some opponents you gotta shove your flopped draws at high frequency, and vs others you gotta check and decide(free cards = profit vs loose players that will call you too much if you bet). Checking ranges still have to be able to withstand aggression, so just shoving every good hand you flop here creates a liability for your check call range.

When the flop checks through, you can basically assume that your opponent has (junk/weak draw/bluffcatcher) as they are in a position to abuse the bubble by putting your tourney life at risk when they flop strong hands; unless they're very tricky to a fault.

When the flop and turn checks through? vs good players you must be willing (and able) to consider your range as a whole, making decisions based on betsize and where you are in your range. There are 3 basic hand groups out of position on the river: (junk = check fold) (pure bluffcatchers = check and decide based on betsize) and (value catchers)*





*value catchers can beat a portion of the opponent's value range and must be called without a very good read.