New player, need better opinions. Playing $400 NL live.

So there is an idiot to my right (idiot who ended up stacking me for $550)

Twice i reached for chips to bet and he folded without me betting anything.

So on the 3rd time i fully intended to check

but slowly moved my hands to my chips to see if he'd just fold again

and he did, just folded

Is this angleshooting by grabbing my chips to make it seem like I was going to bet , but no plans to bet? (no pump fake or putting chips near the line)

no

He's acting first so why would this be a problem?

this is some TV show stuff

Wikipedia - Angle shooting is engaging in actions that may technically be within the scope of the rules of the game, but that are considered unethical or unfair to exploit or take advantage of another player.

OP actually made the first move. By the above definition, I would say it is an angle shoot as he consciously exploited the too-quick folder when he had no intention to bet.

It's not an angle shoot at all. This trick has been around forever, to try and buy a check back or keep the pot low by making the opponent think you rather trap him then bet.

Yes, but if an opponent gives away this kind of tell ( that he basically folds out of turn if he's weak and his opponents grab for chips ), wouldn't it be considered -EV to not exploit him ? It's not like anybody forced him to fold out of turn x times in a row and to expose his "weakness" to the whole table, not just to the OP.

And, judging from the way the OP described the action, OP did not make any forward movement with the chips, or did you OP ? If you grabbed your chips and made any kind of forward movement, then yes, that's angling. If not, judging by your description, it's kind of borderline.

The ethical thing to do though, would be to tell him that he should not take any action before it's his turn, regardless if he has made up his mind about what he's going to do 5 minutes before it's his turn or not.

There isn't definitive guide as to what constitutes angle shooting, although some actions are so manifestly misleading as to render any debate pointless [e.g deliberately checking out of turn to induce a bet from the player who should have acted before you]. What you'v described isn't angle shooting to me. You aren't supposed to fold before your opponent has acted and counting chips isn't a check, bet or fold so your opponent shouldn't be folding like this. I don't agree that this is a question of ethics. There's isn't an onus on a player to teach their opponents how to play/stop making mistakes.

As a side note I play with people who regularly fold when another player is counting out chips. I don't reach for chips in an effort to induce this fold but I know it's going to happen sometimes anyway. I couldn't count the number of times I'v been counting chips hu, considering a bet only to see a fold.

Thank you for the feedback everyone.

This is very debatable. It's pretty clear that once you know that an opponent will fold the river immediately if he has nothing or a weak hand if you only grab for chips ( so basically you don't need to put anything at risk in the pot ) that you hold an advantage over him, making you win without showdown everytime on the river when he has a weak hand or nothing.

I guess it's a pretty thin line and it all comes down to each individual in particular. If you feel guilty about it OP, then you should tell him ( if you play with him again ) to just wait for when it's his turn to act and not take an action before hand. If you don't feel guilty, then don't tell him.

On the other side, he's an adult and if he plays this game, he should know the basics about it as this falls into the pretty standard beginner category.

Not to mention that this "weakness" of the player can harm you in other situations. For example, let's say you get to a river 3-handed ( you, the "weakness" player and another player, let's call him player A ). You're first to act, player A is second to act and the "weakness" player is last to act. You've missed your FD but plan to bluff the river. Player A has a mediocre holding at best ( ex: let's say second pair ). If the "weakness" player folds out of turn as soon as you grab for chips, then it makes it more likely for player A to look you up with second pair as he does not have to worry about another player to act behind him.

I wouldn't consider it an angle shot. It is no different than knowing that a villain will fold on the river every time unless he has the nuts if you make a PSB.

That said, the first time he calls and you show garbage, you won't be able to get away with it again.

The thing is, he doesn't have to bet and OP said that he did not bet in any of the situations involving him and the villain. If he knows that the villain in question will fold if he just fakes the intention of betting ( grabbing chips ), then you can exploit him on the river time and time again. When you don't have it on the river, grab for chips and if he doesn't fold out of turn just check back or check fold and the rest of the times the pot will be yours.