This is a leak of mine, and I'm hoping you may be able to help.

In a nutshell, how do we deal with donk leads when we whiff the flop? Let's say we open the BTN with AJs and the BB calls. Flop comes down T-6-5 rainbow and the BB leads out with a pot sized bet for example - do we just give it up, what does BB's donk lead range look like? What SHOULD generally comprise of a donk lead range; when should we look to use it and on what types of flop textures?

Generally, I only donk lead if I'm in the BB and the flop 'appears' to be advantageous for my range vs the suppose range of the BTN for example - would this be a good spot to utilise it?

It's just not in my thought process, so I'm trying to get the full package to add it to my game, both from an attacking and defending point of view.

If anyone can give me their thoughts and ideas, or direct me to any good articles, I would find it most useful.

Thanks.

In that scenario just fold.

Generally flat smaller bets if you have something, evaluate turn.

Donking online is somewhat rarer than live.

Live it's usually a bad players with top pair trying to find out where they are so it's super easy to play against...flat with TPGK+ (raise some monsters OOP; consider raising monsters IP if deeper) and flat some nutty draws (more so in position), fold weaker made hands, consider raising most other draws and especially OOP assuming you think they have a fold button & get ready to barrel most turns if you raise. This is unbalanced BTW but if someone insists on telling you their hand, it's usually good to go for maximum exploitation.

This is a prime example of a spot that straight away comes to my mind (rightly or wrongly) for a fine spot to donk lead. The call pre is on the loose side, but I'm not one to look a gift horse in the mouth with those pot odds. The 9 shouldn't change much on the turn so was happy to fire a second barrell and give up.

Thoughts here:



Could others post hand examples of spots where they have felt it good to donk lead, and why?

fold pre

Hmm maybe you're right. I just think 64o is OKish to see a flop with odds of 7:1. Anyway, irrespective of my decision pre - what about the donk lead?

This seems rather suicidal.

Fair enough - why?

My interpretation of donk betting is going against the norm of 'checking as the pre flop caller' and leading into the raiser on flops that are advantageous to our range. I would be calling here getting 7:1 with a wide range - I'd of course check raise all my sets and A3 and flush draws; probably check call 66-88; leaving me to decide what hands would be applicable to donk lead here, which is something I rarely do, but I feel if we mix it in, in what we determine to be a good spot, can be profitable.

I'd definitely donk lead all my two pairs and also hands like A4, A5, A6 - AJ and I feel like 64 (regardless of whether it was a poor call pre or not) is a good candidate to do it with on this flop. Villain is obviously going to call with his over pairs, but hands like AT+, KT+, QT+, JT+ are going to be put in a tricky spot, and if we do take down this hand, next time we're in the BB there may just be a seed of doubt in the heads of villain(s) in terms of opening light. Just my thoughts.

Interested to hear some more thoughts on this - particularly around situations when we've used a donk lead successfully (or not so) and our thought process around it. That's what I really want to learn here - why should we do this? What are we looking for when donk leading, and going against the grain.

It looks like you're check-raising no bluffs and only check-calling with 66-88. I think you should have a bit more hands to defend your checks with IMO, so narrow your donk betting range down and use those hands to defend.

I'd also choose donk lead with 66-77 since I would not want to risk giving away a free card when most turns and rivers will cripple my equity. Maybe try and semi-bluff with a good straight&flush draw K3hh, 43hh.

EDIT: My bad, I see you will check-raise all your flush draws

this is the exact example of a spot where you should NOT be donking

donk bets, like all agressive actions in poker, should be somewhat polarized - meaning you should be doing them with very strong hands and very weak hands, doing it with middle pair is just terrible

in addition to that, it is also super bad exploitatively, because all the fish and bad regs for some reason love donkbetting with middle pairs, so it is super easy to read

Because you have a hand that plays decently for small pots and can bluffcatch perfectly. If you bet and get called or raised you're in all kinds of trouble since it's a highly dynamic flop and if you get a fold you've just made the worst hand fold that might have bluffed. Either play hands this way that want to get called/raised like sets or hands that benefit from folds (67s or 78s or something like that). Your hand is smack in the middle.

And mainly the reason for not donk betting anything anyway is because you're out of position against a stronger range and you weaken your checking range by doing so. It's very hard to do it properly and shouldn't be done often anyways, the potential benefits are little compared to the massive costs of making mistakes in trying to.

Thanks guys, this has definitely given me better clarity.

So on the board above, a hand like KT, 98s, A7s etc would be a prime example. We're looking for situations where flop textures should be more advantageous to our range, BUT we don't have much or zero equity.

I just disagree with the fact that this is a terrible spot to donk lead, as we are pretty polarised given the flop texture and our position. Given we flat here with 64o, the flop of 5-4-2 is right up there. There aren't going to be many 3x hands or 6x hands showing up here, and a lot of Ax hands might float here, but give up on a second barrel if the turn doesn't improve them, which I'm presuming a 9 doesn't - had the turn been T+ then I might have just given up.

I find this really interesting, so thanks again for the input.

dont use your bluffcatchers to bluff, use them to catch bluffs

You're not polarized when you're using middle pair.

I used to play nlhe cash games a lot online, do you play tourney or cash? This situation is very player dependent imo. If a player donked into me and I had no notes on him I would raise him the first time to see how he responded. Then I'd note it and act accordingly in the future. Most do it with air or draws, the good ones do it with the nuts, was my experience. In tourneys I wouldn't use this approach though so I don't have good advice for that.

Are you playing poker or cards? Donk bets are 'all over the place' but I will use them in live cash games from the Binds even if I miss the Flop ... IF ... I think my opponent missed as well and they will have a tendency to check it through for a free card, especially if I deem them as passive.

Use a Donk bet to create your own implied odds (and fold equity) and/or pot control as a blocker bet. I tend to agree that most OOP betting online will be taken advantage of in the long run, but as a live poker tool I see more spots for it .. probably more on the Turn than the Flop where PF raisers might be a little more sticky.

Just remember that with a Donk bet a player is giving off information that really didn't need to be offered, yet. You may 'test' this player by flatting or raising but there's nothing wrong with folding out and saying 'Thanks, saved me my C-bet." as you muck. GL