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Old 04-07-2021, 09:15 PM   #1
ManastaR
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Spade Could I have lose less money in this hand?

Could I have lose less money in this hand?

6 max cash game, 10c/25c

fold
fold
fold
Hero (button) As10s raise to 75c
Unknown villain (sb) raise to 3$
(bb) fold
Hero calls

Flop

4-10-4

Villain bets 3,50$
Hero raise to 7$
Villain raise all-in
Hero folds
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Old 04-07-2021, 11:09 PM   #2
Yogg-Saron
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Re: Could I have lose less money in this hand?

Why are you raising the flop?
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Old 04-07-2021, 11:49 PM   #3
ManastaR
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Re: Could I have lose less money in this hand?

I raise him primarily because I don't know where I'm at, and secondarily because I need protection.

Thing is, the pot is 6$ and he bets 3$. If I raise him and he calls, I'm positive I have the best hand. If I raise him and he reraise all-in, I can assume he is holding JJ+.

I don't like a call here because I'm scared of the turn bet. Pot is 6$. He bets 3$. If I call, that's a 12$ pot on the turn. A good turn bet is 6$+~ from him. I don't think I can call such a turn bet here because it implies his all-in on the river and it's already a significant portion of my stack, I can't call an all-in with just a pair because I'm going to be beat too often.

So by calling his flop bet, it seems like he HAS to shut down on the turn, or I lose. If I fold on the flop, it seems a bit weak with such a flop for my hand.

I think that when he's betting the flop so big, he is very likely to bet again on the turn, and now I'm going to think more and more that I'm beat.

Willing to listen to ya!
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Old 04-08-2021, 12:40 AM   #4
SpinMeRightRound
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Re: Could I have lose less money in this hand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ManastaR View Post
I raise him primarily because I don't know where I'm at, and secondarily because I need protection.

Thing is, the pot is 6$ and he bets 3$. If I raise him and he calls, I'm positive I have the best hand. If I raise him and he reraise all-in, I can assume he is holding JJ+.

I don't like a call here because I'm scared of the turn bet. Pot is 6$. He bets 3$. If I call, that's a 12$ pot on the turn. A good turn bet is 6$+~ from him. I don't think I can call such a turn bet here because it implies his all-in on the river and it's already a significant portion of my stack, I can't call an all-in with just a pair because I'm going to be beat too often.

So by calling his flop bet, it seems like he HAS to shut down on the turn, or I lose. If I fold on the flop, it seems a bit weak with such a flop for my hand.

I think that when he's betting the flop so big, he is very likely to bet again on the turn, and now I'm going to think more and more that I'm beat.

Willing to listen to ya!
Your thinking is all wrong. You need to study more and then you will understand why it's wrong.
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Old 04-08-2021, 01:09 AM   #5
antialias
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Re: Could I have lose less money in this hand?

Quote:
I raise him primarily because I don't know where I'm at
So? Did you find out where you stand? No.
Raising to 'find out where you stand' is a terrible idea unless you know your opponent is super-straightforward.
Quote:
, and secondarily because I need protection.
From what hands, exactly, do you think you need protection here (i.e. hands that have a really significant chance of outdrawing you)?

Quote:
I don't like a call here because I'm scared of the turn bet. Pot is 6$. He bets 3$. If I call, that's a 12$ pot on the turn. A good turn bet is 6$+~ from him.
So? Still cheaper than the 7 you gave him.

Quote:
I don't think I can call such a turn bet here because it implies his all-in on the river and it's already a significant portion of my stack, I can't call an all-in with just a pair because I'm going to be beat too often.
Really depends on what kind of player you put him on. Maybe the turn card brings something scary for him? Let's say he holds JJ.
If a K Q or A or another T shows - is he going to bet turn?

Quote:
So by calling his flop bet, it seems like he HAS to shut down on the turn, or I lose.
And if it goes check-check he will bet river with value hands and bluffs...and you still don't know where you stand.

...so you'll have the exact same amount of betting actions than if you just called down starting on the flop - but you get to see at least one extra card.
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Old 04-08-2021, 09:37 AM   #6
Yogg-Saron
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Re: Could I have lose less money in this hand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ManastaR View Post
I raise him primarily because I don't know where I'm at, and secondarily because I need protection.
We should be raising for a value or a bluff. Got to be about the kind of hands that you fold out If you raise and the hands that call.

Your going to get on a lot better if you start doing that instead of betting for where your at.
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Old 04-08-2021, 10:47 AM   #7
madlex
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Re: Could I have lose less money in this hand?

FWIW, under your posted assumption of "he calls weaker hands and raises stronger hands" raising the flop is the perfect play. If that was the case, why would we want to do anything else?

The problem is that your assumption is most likely wrong though.
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