Hi all,

Played poker for years but my understanding of this situation has always been fuzzy, so have just gone with the flow in the past.

The following just happened on a cash table at a home game..

0.50/1 blinds:

UTG raises £4

UTG+1 calls

UTG+2 raises £14

Button shoves for £14.50

Can the initial raiser and caller raise?



TIA

Yes. If both fold or just flat, UTG+2 can only call

Thanks, that was my thinking.

Do you 'know' this or just pretty sure?

Think of the undersized all-in as a call. UTG and UTG+1 are not raising the underzied all-in, they are raising UTG+2's raise to 14. That is what UTG and UTG+1 can raise (they have not had a chance to act on UTG+2's raise), but UTG+2 cannot raise if everyone else calls the all-in(as the all in is effectively a call of his raise to 14).

Some rooms say that action is reopened to UTG+2 only if a full legal raise is made (in this case button would have to shove for 24 or more). In other rooms, they say that as long as the shove is over half the size of a legal raise, it reopens action to UTG+2.

Cheers guys. Is there any links to rules I can show the others to prove my point?

http://www.homepokertourney.com/robe...AL_POKER_RULES

Probably in there somewhere

Here is Rule 44 from the TDA (Tournament Director's Association) Rules

44: Re-Opening the Bet.

In no-limit and pot limit, an all-in wager of less than a full raise does not reopen betting for a player who has already acted and is not facing at least a full raise when the action returns to him. In limit, at least 50% of a full raise is required to re-open betting for players who have already acted. See Addendum.

http://www.pokertda.com/view-poker-tda-rules/

TDA is a very commonly set of rules for Tournament play


This is from Robert's Rules of Poker

"All raises must be equal to or greater than the size of the previous bet or raise on that betting round, except for an all-in wager. A player who has already checked or called may not subsequently raise an all-in bet that is less than the full size of the last bet or raise. (The half-the-size rule for reopening the betting is for limit poker only.)

Example: Player A bets $100 and Player B raises $100 more, making the total bet $200. If Player C goes all in for less than $300 total (not a full $100 raise), and Player A calls, then Player B has no option to raise again, because he wasn’t fully raised. (Player A could have raised, because Player B raised.) "

http://www.pokercoach.us/robspkrruleshome.htm

This is a commonly used set of rules for cash games