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can you get good without playing a lot? can you get good without playing a lot?

03-07-2018 , 12:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koss
Because human brains tend to learn best through a combination of practice and study, not just one thing? Your post is quickly delving into the psychology of human learning, and really isnt a poker question anymore.

Yes, you are correct in that all the information on various spots and ways to handle them is readily available online, and if you were capable of consuming, internalizing, and then applying it, you could probably be a good player. You could probably say the same about all the knowledge needed to become a neurosurgeon or astrophysicist, but thats not how we humans work.

Sure, I guess there could be some savants that can read 2+2, go to a cardroom, and start crushing high stakes right away. But for the other 99.999% of us that have average functioning brains, we become experts at things through years of practice and study.
I just started to learn bridge. found a bridge hand generator on google. i got a book on bridge and looked in the book on how to play that particular hand. since it has 16 points and is balanced you bid 1NT. learned that within 10 mins or less.

I have a problem with studying for longer than 30 mins. It feels like work and i just don't wanna do it. I then just go back to listening to music switching from song to song.

If i could just study poker for hours i reckon i could learn a ton. but im sick of it within 10 mins.

in my school reports back in high school teachers would say has a lot of potential but easily distracted. i think i have a problem there.

how do i fix being distracted? when playing poker im not totally focused on the game either. i either watch the tv or if playing online listen to music and read.
can you get good without playing a lot? Quote
03-07-2018 , 01:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by atw

If i could just study poker for hours i reckon i could learn a ton. but im sick of it within 10 mins.
post of the year right here.
can you get good without playing a lot? Quote
03-08-2018 , 07:48 AM
If you win that Mtt and you win $ 30,000 than it is good
can you get good without playing a lot? Quote
03-08-2018 , 03:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by atw
I just started to learn bridge. found a bridge hand generator on google. i got a book on bridge and looked in the book on how to play that particular hand. since it has 16 points and is balanced you bid 1NT. learned that within 10 mins or less.

I have a problem with studying for longer than 30 mins. It feels like work and i just don't wanna do it. I then just go back to listening to music switching from song to song.

If i could just study poker for hours i reckon i could learn a ton. but im sick of it within 10 mins.

in my school reports back in high school teachers would say has a lot of potential but easily distracted. i think i have a problem there.

how do i fix being distracted? when playing poker im not totally focused on the game either. i either watch the tv or if playing online listen to music and read.
1. Shorten your sessions (playing and studying)
2. Set a goal for focus, not duration
3. Remove distractions
4. Make sure you are well rested

One strategy that people with short attention spans use is to use, shorter, more intense study intervals. So, grab three poker books. Give one your complete attention for 10 minutes (set a timer), then walk around or move for about a minute, then study the next one, etc. etc. etc. Try to get a total of an hour studying in, with the TV off. it helps to go to a library, a bookstore, a coffee shop, or a park, pop on your headphones, set your borwser to simplynoise.com and then focus on the material. If you are at home, it can help to stop after every page, and summarize, out loud and in your own words, what you just read and when it might be useful.

Caffeine helps too, though you have to find the right amount that sharpens focus without making you overly jittery.

In addition to white noise, I also find that EDM is a good choice for studying. It does not engage your brain or distract, but is upbeat enough to keep you awake.
can you get good without playing a lot? Quote
03-09-2018 , 05:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koss
Because human brains tend to learn best through a combination of practice and study, not just one thing? Your post is quickly delving into the psychology of human learning, and really isnt a poker question anymore.

Yes, you are correct in that all the information on various spots and ways to handle them is readily available online, and if you were capable of consuming, internalizing, and then applying it, you could probably be a good player. You could probably say the same about all the knowledge needed to become a neurosurgeon or astrophysicist, but thats not how we humans work.

Sure, I guess there could be some savants that can read 2+2, go to a cardroom, and start crushing high stakes right away. But for the other 99.999% of us that have average functioning brains, we become experts at things through years of practice and study.
Very good point and it applies to almost all professions.

When I joined an army band I sat next to another clarinet player. He was some kind of mythical figure, and I couldn't figure out why since I thought that I played as well as he did. I started a conversation that blew away all my assumptions. It turned out that he had a bachelors degree in music theory, a masters in brass performance and was working on a PhD in music composition. He was playing clarinet because we needed another player in the section. He loved music and wanted to understand it from every angle. I don't know how much he played and practiced, but most musicians at that level are in a practice room at least six hours a day.

My friend studied a lot and he played a lot. What that balance should be is personal and sometimes depends on your home situation and other factors. I'm 25% study. Some pros have said in these forums that they go over the hand histories of every tournament that they play and wind up at about 50% study.

You have to find the balance that works for you. Playing only eight hours a month won't get you anywhere, neither will studying only eight hours a month. You need to be serious about both. Just like my army band friend worked on everything to be a great musician, you have to do the same to be a great poker player.
can you get good without playing a lot? Quote
05-26-2018 , 08:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by atw
I just started to learn bridge. found a bridge hand generator on google. i got a book on bridge and looked in the book on how to play that particular hand. since it has 16 points and is balanced you bid 1NT. learned that within 10 mins or less.

I have a problem with studying for longer than 30 mins. It feels like work and i just don't wanna do it. I then just go back to listening to music switching from song to song.

If i could just study poker for hours i reckon i could learn a ton. but im sick of it within 10 mins.

in my school reports back in high school teachers would say has a lot of potential but easily distracted. i think i have a problem there.

how do i fix being distracted? when playing poker im not totally focused on the game either. i either watch the tv or if playing online listen to music and read.
It sounds like you have Attention deficit disorder. I say that because you sound just like me.

My ADD was not diagnosed until I was 40 years old. My high school GPA was 2.6. I have a 99th percentile IQ and flunked out of two colleges. I couldn't concentrate long enough to do the basics like research for a term paper.

Now that I know that I have ADD, I also know the ways to combat it. I'll give you a sampling of what I mean.

If I am going somewhere, the day before I go out lay out or pack everything that I will need take with me the next day.

I shut down all distractions. I study poker in my office. With the door closed. Wearing earplugs. I am a musician (23 years in an army band) but I NEVER listen to music in my office. The office is for playing, studying and keeping records, nothing else.

I realize my limitations, so if I'm going to do something really boring like memorize hand ranges, I break that time up into small pieces, for example, using flash cards 15-30 minutes a day every day.

To make sure that I'm not goofing off, I track my time by quarter hours. My goals are at least 10 hours per week studying and 40 total hours per week.

Finally, I want to talk about Adderall (or similar medications) that are discussed often in these threads. I want to make something clear.

I have a prescription. I take one eight-hour pill a day. I don't get high. It's doesn't give me an edge. It allows me to function, as does like insulin for someone who needs it.

Even if you don't have ADD (check with your doctor) some of the above ideas might help you to stay more focused.
can you get good without playing a lot? Quote
05-26-2018 , 09:03 PM
Absolutely, let's give a theoretical, one guy will do very little training beyond watching streamer highlights (2-3 hours a week) while playing a ton (40+ hours) v another guy who will have 4 one hour sessions with his choice of top online pros who are going to get a cut of his profits of 2 hours per week.

Who do you put more faith in? Poker is a relatively static game and the actual adjustments are not as drastic as some would consider as it's not infinite, maybe certain games you can open J7s from HJ, but you're not opening 68o or you're cbetting more or you're checking back more etc etc, but it's not exactly extremely complex.

Obviously you might experience situations which are tricky where people jam on flops 5x spr or maybe someone 3bs 8x or dealing with donks, but the complexity is not so much that having amazing basics wouldn't be able to supersede this.

A blend is the best, but if I had to choose between a situation with people getting top tier knowledge v people playing hard, I'd take the top tier knowledge every time.
can you get good without playing a lot? Quote
05-27-2018 , 08:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by atw
there's thousands of hands posted online with c-betting in all sorts of different situations against different players. why can't i read/watch some of these hands and get a feel for when to c-bet, how much to c-bet and when not to c-bet?
It is possible that it could work out for you. It is likely that it will not for most folks. If you are determined to try study 120 + or - hours a month to only play a few hours at best in a Tournament , who really cares? It's your business.
can you get good without playing a lot? Quote
05-27-2018 , 09:33 AM
I realize that play money poker or even very low micros many don’t consider real poker but wouldn’t it still do you some good to see how people react and play in many of the situations? I know that 7 people going to the flop and all checking isn’t realistic but don’t think it could hurt you. There’s ways to get experience without going to the card room
can you get good without playing a lot? Quote
05-27-2018 , 10:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by squid face
since you came back with this silly retort. Ill hit u with another. think about all the 14-15 year old boys practicing sex with themselves. They have done some seriously high reps/, practiced while watching on line, thought of all kind of scenarios, etc. What generally happens when they play their first real game? It does not go as planned and they suk at it. It takes some real world experience to sort sht out. Same gunna happin in poker
GOAT
can you get good without playing a lot? Quote
05-30-2018 , 09:45 AM
I think that you can understand strategies, which helps you later when you will actually play.... but still you have to read a lot of books or articles like casino guru
can you get good without playing a lot? Quote
05-31-2018 , 12:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anatoly1331
I think that you can understand strategies, which helps you later when you will actually play.... but still you have to read a lot of books or articles like casino guru
From following the link in the post above mine, it seems that "Casino Guru" has absolutely nothing to do with poker or any other game where the house does not have an edge. These are poker forums, after all.

Last edited by Poker Clif; 05-31-2018 at 12:05 PM. Reason: spelling
can you get good without playing a lot? Quote
06-01-2018 , 03:41 AM
This is like asking if a long distance relationship while one of you goes to college 5 states over is going to work. Anything is possible but 99.9% likely for your particular situation, no it’s not going to work.
can you get good without playing a lot? Quote
06-03-2018 , 10:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpewingIsMyMove
I heard a player (Barry Green) remark once about the difference between making a correct decision, and making a correct decision, in tempo, every time. If you study a lot, you are giving yourself the tools to think things through and make the correct decision, but the very act of figuring it out will give away a lot of information about your holdings, and will be mentally taxing.

If you play a lot, you start to see patterns almost immediately, so you can assess a situation, recall the correct decision, and act, all in a short and consistent amount of time.

Studying, practicing and playing are all critical to improving.
Brilliant reply. Listen to this guy
can you get good without playing a lot? Quote
06-06-2018 , 09:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by atw
I just started to learn bridge. found a bridge hand generator on google. i got a book on bridge and looked in the book on how to play that particular hand. since it has 16 points and is balanced you bid 1NT. learned that within 10 mins or less.

I have a problem with studying for longer than 30 mins. It feels like work and i just don't wanna do it. I then just go back to listening to music switching from song to song.

If i could just study poker for hours i reckon i could learn a ton. but im sick of it within 10 mins.

in my school reports back in high school teachers would say has a lot of potential but easily distracted. i think i have a problem there.


how do i fix being distracted? when playing poker im not totally focused on the game either. i either watch the tv or if playing online listen to music and read.
I kind of hate saying this but this seems like an ADHD thing which can be greatly helped with medications that help to improve your focus.
can you get good without playing a lot? Quote
06-06-2018 , 01:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotChad
I kind of hate saying this but this seems like an ADHD thing which can be greatly helped with medications that help to improve your focus.
you don't solve adhd with speed. Adhd is solved by avoiding food intolerances like wheat and milk e.t.c. If an adhd kid eats rice meat and curry with no milk or wheat, i bet everything i own that that kid won't have attention problems anymore.
can you get good without playing a lot? Quote
06-06-2018 , 01:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cfoye
you don't solve adhd with speed. Adhd is solved by avoiding food intolerances like wheat and milk e.t.c. If an adhd kid eats rice meat and curry with no milk or wheat, i bet everything i own that that kid won't have attention problems anymore.
Fair enough, just saying it seemed more like a disorder that could be remedied other than just “figuring out” how to concentrate better.
can you get good without playing a lot? Quote
06-06-2018 , 05:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cfoye
you don't solve adhd with speed. Adhd is solved by avoiding food intolerances like wheat and milk e.t.c. If an adhd kid eats rice meat and curry with no milk or wheat, i bet everything i own that that kid won't have attention problems anymore.
Please read my post #31. I'm not a kid, in fact, I wasn't diagnosed until I was 40, and I did a great job of messing up my life during that time. The combination of being on the right medication and knowing what I'm dealing with has made all the difference.

When I was very young, as soon as I sort of knew what a Ph.D, was, I decided that I wanted to be one. It didn't quite go that way, even though teachers told me things like, "In 30 years of teaching I've never seen anyone approach that problem the way you did, but you solved it."

When I was a kid, the teachers didn't know what to do with me. In sixth grade we were split into two classes. We referred to them as the "smart class" and the "dumb class." I thought of myself as the smartest kid in the dumb class. I estimated my IQ as about 125.

A few months into the school year I was asked if I wanted to switch into the other class. I was intimidated and I said no. A month later I changed my mind but I was told to stay where I was. A couple months before the end of the school year they decided to hold me back because I wasn't ready for seventh grade. A month later they decided that I shouldn't be held back because I would be too bored doing sixth grade again.

I still remember squeaking by in seventh grade English. My quarterly marks were E C D+ D.

Fast forward to age 40 after I was diagnosed. It took me several years to admit that I had ADD (my wife spotted it, then a psychologist friend noticed it as well) unlearn my bad habits and build good ones.

I have no doubt now that if I went back to college I could get a degree. I'm not the bored, distracted, and disorganized mess that I was until about age 42. If I was like that now I could never do the amount of studying that I do for poker and get anything out of it.

I have talked to a lot of people and read a lot about ADD. PBS has had several good shows on that topic. Not once did anyone mention diet as a major factor.

Last edited by Poker Clif; 06-06-2018 at 05:24 PM. Reason: punctuation
can you get good without playing a lot? Quote
06-07-2018 , 01:41 PM
My advice is don’t fall into the cliche trap of feeling euphoric because some professional hit home with a few vague suggestions that gave you an oprah Winfrey “aha moment”. It’s largely a pharmaceutical lie to make you buy the band aid solution rather than addressing the root cause via diet
can you get good without playing a lot? Quote
06-08-2018 , 08:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cfoye
My advice is don’t fall into the cliche trap of feeling euphoric because some professional hit home with a few vague suggestions that gave you an oprah Winfrey “aha moment”. It’s largely a pharmaceutical lie to make you buy the band aid solution rather than addressing the root cause via diet
This was no "aha" moment. There were no "vague suggestions" that changed anything. It was a years-long struggle to dump my bad habits and learn good ones. I was in the army for part of that time, and several of my fellow soldiers commented about how I was "getting better" (meaning more efficient and less of a screw-up.)
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