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Old 01-11-2018, 07:53 AM   #1
Ishipit
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Can you find a fold here?

So yet another big pot I lost at 2/5

To start off I've been pretty card dead for about 2 weeks. Every time I get ak or qq I lose. Aa or kk nobody comes into the pot. It's just been that kinda down swing lately.

I wake up in the cutoff with QsQh with a 800 stack.

Action

Two limps in front, I raise to 25

BB calls (stack 900), utg limper calls (stack 200)

Flop 4h 7c 8c

Utg checks

I bet 50

BB calls

Utg shoves 175

I call

BB shoves all in 900


Ahhhh!!!!

Earlier a similar situation came about with a different player at the table, I folded JJ and the guy shows a semi bluff with mid pair and a gutshot...

I tank, I figure he could be doing the same thing with 99-jj, a nut flush draw, or maybe even to chop. I don't put 56, kk, aa in his range. I figure if he has a set so be it. I figured he'd probably raise smaller to keep me in if he had a set.

Sure enough he shows 88 for top set and I find no queen.

Do you find the fold?
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Old 01-11-2018, 08:30 AM   #2
Tutejszy
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Re: Can you find a fold here?

pretty easy fold, you are either crushed or flipping. Also, the situation is unlikely to be similar to a previous one - here you have already one player all-in, so BB doesnt have fold equity vs him, therefore is even less likely to be semibluffing.

also, raise bigger pre vs 2 limpers, 35 or even 40 if they are call-happy
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Old 01-11-2018, 09:06 AM   #3
Kurn, son of Mogh
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Re: Can you find a fold here?

BB's over shove is pretty much never a hand that one pair beats.
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Old 01-11-2018, 09:06 AM   #4
Ishipit
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Re: Can you find a fold here?

Ya, I feel like my biggest leak right now is not finding folds.

How about if I had only bought in for say 400 or 500? Call the shove? Or maybe even shove myself after the utg all in?
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Old 01-11-2018, 09:09 AM   #5
Kurn, son of Mogh
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Re: Can you find a fold here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishipit View Post
Ya, I feel like my biggest leak right now is not finding folds.

How about if I had only bought for say 400 or 500? Call the shove? Or maybe even shove myself after the utg all in?
What's the difference. You still get stacked. You had ONE PAIR. Why pay off a huge bet with a weak hand?
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Old 01-11-2018, 09:16 AM   #6
Ishipit
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Re: Can you find a fold here?

Ya I guess the earlier hand where I folded my overpair to a bluff clouded my judgement.. thanks for the input. Do you guys have any suggestions for resources to help me find better folds?
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Old 01-11-2018, 09:22 AM   #7
Kurn, son of Mogh
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Re: Can you find a fold here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishipit View Post
Ya I guess the earlier hand where I folded my overpair to a bluff clouded my judgement.. thanks for the input. Do you guys have any suggestions for resources to help me find better folds?
Try Ed Miller's "The Course"

Simply, at 2/5, you really should be calling huge bets with TO, over pair type hands unless you have very, very specific knowledge regarding your opponent's.

Big pots for big hands. That bet is so seldom not something that has you crushed, that's you're lighting money on fire when you call.
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Old 01-11-2018, 09:41 AM   #8
answer20
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Re: Can you find a fold here?

Not really your question, but I find the BB shove here as marginal. Sure, once you raise and flat the all-in we should expect your range to be pretty small. Do you ever show up here with a flush draw? Why is it all or nothing here in the side pot, especially with top set? (No offense, but) YOU are never showing up here with a straight draw and the pot is going to keep growing if you have a lower set.

Yes, you did call so BB looks like a genius, but you've shown/made big folds before and if UTG is the one on a flush draw and hits then BB get zero chips from the hand if you fold. The shove isn't a 'never' play, but I think it's not needed with the stacks left behind. He should realize that the stacks are probably going to get in there anyway and that he has redraws if the flush/straight hits the Turn.

As far as OP play, tough to fold AGAIN. But I agree that you are either crushed or flipping for quite a large pot. If your BR can handle such a swing then maybe, but I think he's asking you to put a little too much in there. Calling with a shorter stack is possible but I'm assuming he 'knows' you and this is not 99-JJ very often to the point where you have some additional calling equity.

It really sucks to fold ... but win the war, not just one battle where 'all' your troops are in jeopardy. GL
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Old 01-11-2018, 10:55 AM   #9
Ishipit
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Re: Can you find a fold here?

How do you play here if you have the straight flush draw?? 9cTc?

That's so many outs do you have the pot odds to call the shove?
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Old 01-11-2018, 11:03 AM   #10
Percyeus86
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Re: Can you find a fold here?

Fold. BB has no incentive to shove worse than two pair here.
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Old 01-11-2018, 12:01 PM   #11
Kurn, son of Mogh
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Re: Can you find a fold here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishipit View Post
How do you play here if you have the straight flush draw?? 9cTc?

That's so many outs do you have the pot odds to call the shove?
Really depends on what the smaller all-in has. If it's another flush draw, then T 9 is a dog for the side pot getting even money, and only has about 26% equity for the whole thing.

Against 2 sets the straight-flush draw easily has odds to call, but against the full range, it's close, but I think it's probably a fold (not that I'd be able to fold)
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